Potters Clay in a muck mix?

[GrimLore]

Potters Clay in a muck mix? Sorry but I see it is used by John Geanangel in his videos a LOT. It seems awkward to explain but I do not see him mention his recipe and am curious if anyone uses that on a regular basis. I see a lot of merit for things like rock plantings but I don't understand I guess how the trees seem to do well in it.

 

[Poink88]

Clay is used to hold the mix (muck) itself. The muck holds the planting medium (or sometimes the tree) in place only...it is not where the roots actually grow.

 

[GrimLore]

Clay is used to hold the mix (muck) itself. The muck holds the planting medium (or sometimes the tree) in place only...it is not where the roots actually grow.

In his videos he says he mixes it with s moss and peat which actually looks to be - wrecking my head on that

 

[Poink88]

In his videos he says he mixes it with s moss and peat which actually looks to be - wrecking my head on that

The muck need the moss as "reinforcement" (think rebar in concrete). Peat can be replaced with other stuff depending on your mix. Some use Turface fines.

 

[GrimLore]

So by mixing the moss peat and potters clay he gets the stability he needs in odd plantings. I can then guess that the potters clay acts like what we call a clay soil here and does not bother the plants just keeps them in place or am I way off here? I really want to be certain and prefer not to "sacrifice" several trees to experiment.

 

[Poink88]

That is correct. It is used as a "wall" (slab plantings) or "anchor" (rock planting) at times.

 

[GrimLore]

That is correct. It is used as a "wall" (slab plantings) or "anchor" (rock planting) at times.

I suppose i can just use the heavy clay soil I find out back then and not need to bother finding or buying clay. Around here if you get that stuff wet it is a lot like modeling clay

 

[Poink88]

That would work.

Read here a bit where Bill V. shared his muck recipe

http://ibonsaiclub.forumotion.com/t7645-recipe-for-muck

 

[GrimLore]

That is a good thread but it adds a bit of confusion as one person posted they mix the clay with moss and peat - not a "cut" on you my friend. It just seems to be an "open" door for discussion and application.

 

[Poink88]

Just like you can have a million soil mix...so can you with muck mix. Do or use what works for you.

 

[GrimLore]

"SIGH" My Sensei tells me to buy and setup yet another temp greenhouse

 

[Bill S]

Grim, my take and what we do here is to use the muck as a retaining wall so to speak, then add the bonsai mix inside the wall. Sometimes depending on what is going on the actual soil may need to be modified (depth, shapetype tree, etc.) but usually it is used to make a container on a container so to speak, usually when the container is a rock or slab.

 

[johng]

I wouldn't believe anything that guy says!


Pics uploaded from my ipad so I apologize that they are side ways.


The single tree has been growing in muck with potters clay for a decade. The rock planting on top of the shohin stand since 1997. Clay is fine and plants actually love it but it certainly requires a different approach when it comes to watering. One important factor with clay is the use of long fiber sphagnum moss...the moss acts as a conduit for water to penetrate the muck.

the black stuff that you can't identify is a commercial product called Michigan peat....most likely an unnecessary component but that is the way I was taught to make it...and it has never failed so I have stuck with it.

Its been my experience that most people fail with their first attempt at maintaining a rock plant because they water it like a bonsai or they don't keep a moss covering over the muck and it is washed away. Muck rock plantings need to be thoroughly soaked on a daily basis.


good luck with planting...
john

 

[Poink88]

John,

You use the muck as your substrate also? I mean no other substrate is used and muck is not just used as a "wall" or "dike"?

 

[johng]

John,

You use the muck as your substrate also? I mean no other substrate is used and muck is not just used as a "wall" or "dike"?

I have done it both ways...but on a rock where there is no flat surface, like you would have with a slab, you have to use straight muck. I have also done it both ways on slabs and have had better success with just muck.

Here is a slab that Bill V. and I created about 3 years ago....straight muck....i think the board is 30' long.

as you can see it is barely hanging on
John

 

[johng]

recipe...

Potters Clay in a muck mix? Sorry but I see it is used by John Geanangel in his videos a LOT. It seems awkward to explain but I do not see him mention his recipe and am curious if anyone uses that on a regular basis. I see a lot of merit for things like rock plantings but I don't understand I guess how the trees seem to do well in it.

Potters clay, Long fiber, and sphagnum moss...equal parts by volume....not weight...mix with water until you get a cookie dough consistency....keep it moist with a wet towel and its good for a season or more. I use a cheese grater to shred the clay so that it mixes well and I leave the LFSM long...don't chop it up. It has been mentioned several times in the videos...but most people never listen to the videos anyhow

Truth of the matter is, as several have mentioned, there are as many recipes for muck as there are for soil...use what works for you!

 

[daygan]

I'm really curious - how do the roots stay aerated in this kind of a mixture?

 

[GrimLore]

Potters clay, Long fiber, and sphagnum moss...equal parts by volume....not weight...mix with water until you get a cookie dough consistency....keep it moist with a wet towel and its good for a season or more. I use a cheese grater to shred the clay so that it mixes well and I leave the LFSM long...don't chop it up. It has been mentioned several times in the videos...but most people never listen to the videos anyhow

Truth of the matter is, as several have mentioned, there are as many recipes for muck as there are for soil...use what works for you!

Thank you and my I also ask where you get your potters clay and what color it is It looks grey to me and I would so prefer grey over reddish brown.

May sound silly but my Wife asked me to ask you what kind if fish that is in the picture of the Bald Cypress you posted on this site

 

[fore]

I'm pretty sure it's the latest issue of Bonsai focus that talked about slab plantings, and this gentleman also used the muck as substrate.

 

[dick benbow]

I use the mixture to create the walls for slab plantings with the trees being rooted in regular bonsai mix. Just from observation tho, I see tons of maples coming from oregon nurseries and the soil looks for the most part just plain clay.