Prairiefire crabapple bonsai?

[JonW]

Anyone grow this? How small do the leaves stay? I see them all over in the landscaping and then at home depot. Tempted to buy one and trunk chop.

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

Supposed to be really good for bonsai. I had one last year that didn’t last the first winter. But that shouldn’t deter you, it was likely luck of the draw and placement in the cold frame.

Look at Brent’s site Evergreengardenworks.com .....he has cutting grown gallon size available.

If it were up to me, I wouldn’t grab a grafted one out of a big box store. btw My favorite is Siebold crab, but I’m going to give Sugar Tyme a shot next.

cheers
DSD sends

 

[JonW]

Huh, I planned to check his site, but I saw ones with two to three inch trunks at hd for $40. I would do a trunk chop in a couple weeks and overwinter in a spot that starts right around freezing all winter.

I worried it might be a bit coarse for shohin.

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

I see. Hmm... the issue is always the graft, specially the height. If you can get a rootstock that matches the growth of the scion, it might work. Yet the placement would need to be really low for a successful shohin consisting of the Praire Fire stock.... something that is hard to get.

I’m not sure if the leaf size would reduce enough for shohin, yet crabs can make some really cool bonsai with patience.

Check out this site from Morten Albek on a crab case study.

I’ll look forward to seeing your future posts on this subject.

cheers
DSD sends

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

Uh Oh! Here’s the link I was referring to:

Redesigning an older Crabapple - Kisetsu-en Shohin Bonsai Europe

Video No 3 in the series concentrating on deadwood. An old Crabapple need redesign, after the center roots have died and killed important branches. Deciduous trees need another approach to deadwood design, and the first steps are taken towards a new future of an old bonsai. View the story at the...

shohin-europe.com

 

[JonW]

Uh Oh! Here’s the link I was referring to:

Redesigning an older Crabapple - Kisetsu-en Shohin Bonsai Europe

Video No 3 in the series concentrating on deadwood. An old Crabapple need redesign, after the center roots have died and killed important branches. Deciduous trees need another approach to deadwood design, and the first steps are taken towards a new future of an old bonsai. View the story at the...

shohin-europe.com

Very cool, I've seen some of his posts.

I wondered about the leaf size. They are small now as it is spring. I was wondering about grafts. When I walked by to a quick glance, the bases looked pretty good. I actually wasn't sure if they were grafted, granted I didn't look closely

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

Leaf size shouldn’t be an issue. Prairiefire crabapple is reputed to be good for bonsai, leaf size is part and parcel of that assessment.

Here’s a comprehensive write up from Brent at Evergreen Gardenworks about growing crabapples for bonsai that might be of more use.

Cheers
DSDsends

 

[PeaceLoveBonsai]

Years ago I bought a prairie fire crabapple from the ArborDay site. I took this as a root cutting. It’s grown well, but not flowered as yet. Leaf size is OK, but I assume will reduce over time.

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

Cool crab cascade effort!

btw: Links don't seem to be working on my phone today! User error I'm sure. Here's the link
https://evergreengardenworks.com/crabappl.htm

DSD sends

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

Very cool, I've seen some of his posts.

I wondered about the leaf size. They are small now as it is spring. I was wondering about grafts. When I walked by to a quick glance, the bases looked pretty good. I actually wasn't sure if they were grafted, granted I didn't look closely

I guarantee you, all the crab apples at Home Depot and other "big box stores" are grafted. If you have no experience air layering to get the scion on its own roots, forget the Home Depot trees. They ultimately will be poor bonsai.

If you chop a Home Depot crab, if you accidentally cut below the graft union, you will loose the 'Prairie Fire' portion of the tree. The understock they use is selected for disease resistance and lack of sucker formation. The understock will have plain green leaves and be very reluctant to flower. It will have small white flowers if it ever gets around to flowering.

So if you try to work with a grafted tree, you need to be concious of where the graft union is.

I do have a crab that is an understock trunk, and I grafted branches low on the trunk. I'm not quite happy with it, but it does work. THe trunk is grafting understock all the branches are a named weeping flowering crab apple. I grafted 5 branches onto the trunk. The cultivar is 'Anne E'

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

all the branches are grafted on.

This is nowhere near a finished bonsai. It is still in a nursery pot. It needs more branches grafted on, and I keep missing the window of opportunity to do grafting. Over 10 years sitting in this nursery pot, waiting for more branches.

Do yourself a favor, buy only cutting grown crab apples from Brent at Evergreen Gardenworks or occasionally offered by William Valavanis at International Bonsai. Don't waste decades with Home Depot grafted trees.

 

[Shogun610]

Evergreen garden works is the way to go.

 

[Japonicus]

I got this Prairie Fire from Brent at EGGW 2 years ago but I am ignorant about them.
I have this one wired this way to cut back at a later date whenever that is for a style.
Unfortunately I cut back one trunk to a node and it did not bud...yet anyway,
and the branching on this one is a good deal higher than I want, thus my cut back
but I can't remember when I cut it back


I think it has beautiful colour and would make a good candidate for bonsai in deed with lower branching.

 

[Japonicus]

There's a chance I cut this one trunk back to a node this Spring
when I cut back and potted any of my JM trees, as buds were moving @HorseloverFat since he inquired.
Like I said, I'm ignorant about development of these trees, and probably should not have treated as JM.
There's 11 days difference in the 1st 3 pics above 4/14/21 and the fourth and fifth (today).

 

[amcoffeegirl]

I bought a Louisa crab from Brent last year.
it is in the ground and doing great.

 

[Japonicus]

I bought a Louisa crab from Brent last year.
it is in the ground and doing great.

This is a weeping variety right? I have one in my landscape, pretty red birch like bark, pale white/pink flowers.

 

[Shogun610]

This is a weeping variety right? I have one in my landscape, pretty red birch like bark, pale white/pink flowers.

That’s the weeping candy apple I believe?? I have one as well.. air layering it

 

[JonW]

Leaf size shouldn’t be an issue. Prairiefire crabapple is reputed to be good for bonsai, leaf size is part and parcel of that assessment.

Here’s a comprehensive write up from Brent at Evergreen Gardenworks about growing crabapples for bonsai that might be of more use.

Cheers
DSDsends

Well, leaf size is all relative. I sold all my trees with somewhat kosher leaves and kept stuff like kingsville boxwood, chojubai, etc. I re read Brent's page on malus. Definitely good info and a good resource. I'd rather spend more on a bit of a trunk if I can find it locally. Though I really don't have space!

 

[JonW]

I guarantee you, all the crab apples at Home Depot and other "big box stores" are grafted. If you have no experience air layering to get the scion on its own roots, forget the Home Depot trees. They ultimately will be poor bonsai.

If you chop a Home Depot crab, if you accidentally cut below the graft union, you will loose the 'Prairie Fire' portion of the tree. The understock they use is selected for disease resistance and lack of sucker formation. The understock will have plain green leaves and be very reluctant to flower. It will have small white flowers if it ever gets around to flowering.

So if you try to work with a grafted tree, you need to be concious of where the graft union is.

I do have a crab that is an understock trunk, and I grafted branches low on the trunk. I'm not quite happy with it, but it does work. THe trunk is grafting understock all the branches are a named weeping flowering crab apple. I grafted 5 branches onto the trunk. The cultivar is 'Anne E'

View attachment 370369

I'd assume so too. I've done some air layers and was thinking if air layer the top and then chop above the scion, giving me two shots at the cost of 1 tree.

I just keep seeing them in landscaping and it makes me want one, but not sure I'll bite on it.

 

[Japonicus]

That’s the weeping candy apple I believe?? I have one as well.. air layering it