BackyardBonsai
Shohin
Sounds like he could use a seasonal apprentice or two. Am sure someone around his area would be willing to help out for some nice materials and techniques to create nice stocks. Just saying...
pre bonsai Mark
- Thread starter discusmike
- Start date
Bonsai Mike
Mame
He had stuff on the Facebook auctions a lot this year and last. Not much the past two weeks, so maybe his leaves started to extend. If I had to guess, more will be back once the leaves harden off so he can ship them.
I do appreciate all of the support you folks are giving this guy. I am a professional, licensed contractor. I am very busy this time of year also. If I did not respond to phone calls, texts, and emails any better than Mark does, I would be out of business...it's that simple. Sorry, just the way it is in my world.
rockm
Spuds Moyogi
Ya know. I've heard this same complaint about (insert any bonsai business name) for years.
It's very unfair, mostly silly, especially as the busiest bonsai growing and selling time of the year is here in the U.S.
I don't know of ANY reputable bonsai or bonsai product seller who INTENTIONALLY treats anyone "like shit" because they have "the goods." I've been buying bonsai stuff (sometimes extremely specialized bonsai stuff) for more than 25 years.
For the most part (and there's only one notable exception that comes to mind), reputable "name" bonsai sellers will bend over backward to satisfy their customers. I've had that happen over and over and over again with dozens of sellers online and in person.
The problems lie mostly in a disconnect with first-time buyers' expectations and sellers' backoffice operations. Most sellers are one-person businesses (if you could call them that, mostly they're overgrown hobbies) that can't handle much volume through their business operations, or with their inventory. They're just not set up for dealing with hundreds or thousands of customers. They don't have elaborate ordering systems, or telephone, or web contact systems.
They have themselves and possibly their spouse...
That service doesn't match up with new buyers who think they're dealing with Amazon, or heck even the local nursery. The expectation of instantaneous contact with the seller and instant notification of orders and such is beyond the capabilities of most bonsai businesses.
Getting what you want is not a matter of bitching and yelling about how bad the service is. It's understanding the seller is probably already trying his best and being persistent and not yelling (I've never understood the tactic of customers getting increasingly aggressive and loud to get what they want. It can work, but mostly make people NOT want to help you or push you off on someone else).
rockm
Spuds Moyogi
I've worked for contractors and with bonsai businesses. The two are hardly the same. For instance, how many customers do you have at a time--four, five? Not 100 or 200? Is your business your main income? Bonsai isn't necessarily for their owners, who tend to have "day jobs." Do you spend time growing the wood for your work? Bonsai sellers do--they run out or decide the health of their stock needs to be improved before passing it on to customers...
Those things and a 100 others separate the two businesses.
Agreed! With the exception of Brussel’s, all bonsai related businesses are mom and pop operations. I know on a personal basis most of the bonsai vendors by attending the major shows and doing business with them. Bonsai is a niche business, and part of the “mystery” is finding sources for good material, pots, stands, tools, soil, etc.
Did you know that pretty much ALL the akadama that is imported comes in by the efforts of one guy in California? Another guy was for years the only person importing high quality pots in quantity? Want a Zuisho Japanese White Pine? There’s only one vendor who has them readily available. Want really good annealed copper wire? There’s only s few reliable vendors.
My point is, bonsai is a cottage industry here in the US. We should be supporting our vendors, not vilifying them. Of course, scammers have no place in our community. But, the honest, overworked guys need all the support we can give ‘em.
0soyoung
Imperial Masterpiece
If mom isn't answering the calls and pop isn't answering the calls, mom and pop usually will end up finding a lot of time on their hands.
D
Deleted member 21616
Guest
i don't think anybody has mentioned the number of window shoppers and tire-kickers, but that is also an extraordinarily time consuming factor, at least for the pot guys i talk to. When they post their pots up for auction, they get FLOODED with inquiries from people who want more pictures, have questions, are looking to a pay fraction of the price, knowing all along that they were never seriously interested.
That said, I have never not been able to buy something in due time that i was ready to pay for. You want a tree from Mark? Will it kill you to wait a week? or a month? do you really need that tree today? I waited 6 months for my trees from Mark - worth every minute and dollar needless to say
these guys are all 1-man-shows. we need to be respectful and keep that in mind.
That said, I have never not been able to buy something in due time that i was ready to pay for. You want a tree from Mark? Will it kill you to wait a week? or a month? do you really need that tree today? I waited 6 months for my trees from Mark - worth every minute and dollar needless to say
these guys are all 1-man-shows. we need to be respectful and keep that in mind.
rockm
Spuds Moyogi
Nope they won't. They are probably already busy filling orders or mailing out stuff. The good ones typically have backorders and don't rely on telephone calls for business. I know my bonsai nursery owning friends used to sell at bonsai shows, but strictly avoided online sales (Even though the volume and profit would have been pretty decent) because they didn't want to deal with mostly anonymous (and cranky) Internet orders and constant phone calls. They had plenty of business otherwise.
River's Edge
Masterpiece
Respectfully disagree! Serious customers in the Bonsai world understand the efforts of serious growers and they provide all the business a small operation can handle. Quality is not that easy to find. It is like the many who complain that it is too far to drive for meetings as compared to those who drive willingly to take part in workshops, purchase product, share in the hobby. There is no specific time that a customer must have a product. It is a luxury purchase, not food, shelter or clothing. There are times when the work must be done to ensure healthy, quality trees. There are times when the grower is available to give personal service to those with an appointment. For the time and effort i put into my product, i prefer the opportunity to sell direct and meet the next caretaker of my trees.
I don't have the experience that most of you have trying to buy trees...I've mainly just dealt with Brent at Evergreen, and he notifies me back within 24 hours with answers. I'll just stick with him. Didn't mean to cause a war here. Peter
There’s no war here, more of a matter of “setting expectations”.
I’m glad you’re happy with Brent. He’s a good guy.
He does not do what Comstock does with his JBP seedling cuttings!
Each of the high quality vendors has a specialty. Or so it seems. I’ll give you an example: about 5 years ago, Kathy Shaner was the judge for the Atlanta Bonsai Society Show. I put in several entries, including an Atlas Cedar. Kathy asked me where it came from. So, I said, “Kathy, you know there’s only one place to get Atlas Cedars...”, and before I could finish, she said, “Gremel!” And she was right, of course.
Now, Gremel is a quirky guy. Not always easy to reach. He’s sometimes forgetful. But, geez... he’s got great trees for sale!
And I think you're correct Adair. My expectations are pretty high most of the time. I do expect good service wherever I go. If I go in a store and need help, and don't get waited on, or the person is rude or stupid, I just walk out. There are also certain kinds of people that I don't do well with...it doesn't mean they are bad people, or run a crummy business, it just means that I need to look elsewhere. Took me 74 years to learn that. 
Brian Van Fleet
Pretty Fly for a Bonsai Guy
I have learned that some customers are far more trouble than they think they’re worth.And I think you're correct Adair. My expectations are pretty high most of the time. I do expect good service wherever I go. If I go in a store and need help, and don't get waited on, or the person is rude or stupid, I just walk out. There are also certain kinds of people that I don't do well with...it doesn't mean they are bad people, or run a crummy business, it just means that I need to look elsewhere. Took me 74 years to learn that.
rockm
Spuds Moyogi
Bonsai business folks won't tell you this, but selling low end material is a time-consuming, frustrating, thankless task that rewards them with never-ending complaints and requests for refund.. All that is doubly true for on-line sales where they're dealing with a big contingent of weird and/or downright crazy customers.
I'm not blaming any "victims" of bad sellers, but just pointing out that buying bonsai stuff is not strictly a business deal. The best merchants develop a relationship with their customers. It's very hard to develop that kind of relationship online. If waiting a few weeks to get exactly what you want gets to you, then by all means, look elsewhere. Also understand that you are probably also walking away from a richer source of material and knowledge to back it up. If instant gratification is what you're after, get to bonsai show, or bricks and mortar location where these folks are in person, with stock to sell.
FWIW, I always keep in mind the story of the pot underneath the cedar elm below. I commissioned it over 15 years ago from Bryan Albright in the U.K. It's pretty large, over 22 inches across. It took a ton of clay to make it and more than a week to construct. It also took me six months to get it.
Bryan, bless his soul, had to make THREE of them because the first two either warped badly or cracked in the kiln. He went through something like 100 lbs of clay to make all three. That sucked ALL of the profit out of the sale. He didn't ask me for more $$ and apologized for the time it took to get done. He also didn't tell me he lost $$ on it. he went that extra mile because he is one of those great craftsmen that turned a part time job into a full time one out of love for bonsai.
He's not alone in that kind of thing. I've known dozens of bonsai business owners over the years (God rest Dale Cochoy's soul). Every one of them puts a lot more than money into what they're doing. There is pride involved also. It's that way with quality starter and advanced stock--The trees you get from dedicated growers like Brent, Mark and others is quality because their names are behind it.
If all that means nothing to you, by all means look elsewhere.
I'm not blaming any "victims" of bad sellers, but just pointing out that buying bonsai stuff is not strictly a business deal. The best merchants develop a relationship with their customers. It's very hard to develop that kind of relationship online. If waiting a few weeks to get exactly what you want gets to you, then by all means, look elsewhere. Also understand that you are probably also walking away from a richer source of material and knowledge to back it up. If instant gratification is what you're after, get to bonsai show, or bricks and mortar location where these folks are in person, with stock to sell.
FWIW, I always keep in mind the story of the pot underneath the cedar elm below. I commissioned it over 15 years ago from Bryan Albright in the U.K. It's pretty large, over 22 inches across. It took a ton of clay to make it and more than a week to construct. It also took me six months to get it.
Bryan, bless his soul, had to make THREE of them because the first two either warped badly or cracked in the kiln. He went through something like 100 lbs of clay to make all three. That sucked ALL of the profit out of the sale. He didn't ask me for more $$ and apologized for the time it took to get done. He also didn't tell me he lost $$ on it. he went that extra mile because he is one of those great craftsmen that turned a part time job into a full time one out of love for bonsai.
He's not alone in that kind of thing. I've known dozens of bonsai business owners over the years (God rest Dale Cochoy's soul). Every one of them puts a lot more than money into what they're doing. There is pride involved also. It's that way with quality starter and advanced stock--The trees you get from dedicated growers like Brent, Mark and others is quality because their names are behind it.
If all that means nothing to you, by all means look elsewhere.
BackyardBonsai
Shohin
I think we are missing the point the OP brought up. Everyone have a valid point but if you going to be away for an extended of time and you know you going to have 'customers' looking for your goods then why not state that in a post on here and FB. Assume that are the social media platforms you use. Wouldn't take more than 5 minutes and people know that you will not be able to response back for a while. The problem is Mark left the customers hanging...… I am sure NO one would like that.
bwaynef
Masterpiece
Probably because he assumed most of his customer base would understand that he's running around with his hair on fire right now. He pops in on FB (and here) occasionally with updates.
Dav4
Drop Branch Murphy
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Exactly... I saw on FB this AM (around 6:15 EST) that he had gotten up at 3:30 to go collecting stock for future sale... the post was 2 hours old when I read it.
rockm
Spuds Moyogi
Not missing anything. Define "left customers hanging" versus "customers definition of "hanging." It's a grey area. I'd bet Mark gets back to them eventually. This is the 'busy season' for anyone in the bonsai business. It will be busy through the summer and growing season.
People who'v been doing this for a long time get their buying done in the winter, when things are slower...just sayin...
namnhi
Masterpiece
I think he already has enough customers to keep him busy. However if he interested in expand his business... He needs to reply to potential buyers...
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