Pre bonsai plants, now what...

[Nurse_Firefighter390]

Went to the local garden center. Found this little guys for pretty cheap. Now what! Should they be potted in these little pots I bought with them or pot them in bigger containers to allow them to grow quicker? Thoughts? I have no intention of doing anything with the trees (wiring/pruning) yet just want to try and be able to keep them alive as I have killed the last one. Working on the basics of life before I had the spice.

also can anyone tell me what type of juniper the second one is. I’m fairly certain the first (larger one) is a Procumbens nana. Just unsure what the second(smaller one) is.
Thanks for the tips and advice.

 

[Paul G]

They all look like procumbens nana to me. Keep them outside year round

 

[Shibui]

One could be Chinese juniper. There are several varieties grown but they all have scale foliage. Sometimes it reverts to spiky juvenile foliage as it appears your has done.

There's no one right answer to whether to pot or not but some basic understanding may help you choose wisely.
Trees in small pots grow very slowly. Developing an impressive bonsai in a small pot will probably take 20-40 years.
Trees in larger pots grow faster. Growing in an oversize pot can halve the time to thicken the trunk and develop branches.
Trees in small pots are more likely to dry out in hot weather and die. larger or even just slightly oversize pots offer more leeway while you learn about watering and care.
Really large pots can be worse than small pots. If the roots can't grow through the pot in reasonable time the unused soil gets stale and can have detrimental consequences for the tree.

Trees in oversize pots are not considered bonsai. Many beginners opt to forego good growth so they can have a 'bonsai', even if it is just a stick in a pot.
It is not a really good time to be repotting trees but I see that your new trees will transfer into the new pots without and root reduction. That's called slip potting cause you just slip it out of one pot and into another without any root work. You can do that any time of year.

Looks like your new pots are probably pretty good size for these trees to grow a bit. for trees this size those would be considered 'grow pots' so I would be happy to pop them both into new homes. larger pots might just be a bit too big at this stage but maybe next year depending if you want growth of a sticky 'bonsai'.
Your choice now you know some facts.

 

[Nurse_Firefighter390]

Shibui thank you for your comment that helps me out a lot! I was unsure of the scaly foliage tree but I figured I would give it a go and try and grow the little booger! The only root work I did to the tree when placing them in the pots was the taller one I just cut a very small vertical slit so the roots were able to lay out flat on the pot verse standing so stall in the pot. But here is the final product I finished them last night around 10pm when the weather was cooler and not so blazing.
Thanks again!

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

You are taking the right step. First learning the "horticulture" of keeping a juniper alive and growing for a year or two. Then you can add the "bonsai stuff" to your skill set. And as these grow, you can add more trees to your collection.

 

[Nurse_Firefighter390]

Trees in small pots are more likely to dry out in hot weather and die. larger or even just slightly oversize pots offer more leeway while you learn about watering and care.
Really large pots can be worse than small pots.

so in regards to your comment about the small pots. I have the junipers in the bonsia soil equal parts pumice lava and Akadama. I watered the plants last night and given the fact that we have had multiple hot days (88’), would you recommend daily waterings? I placed a chop stick in each of them for about 5 minutes. I did not feel any wetness or dampness to the stick. So to me that means water but I over watered the last one And killed it, (granted it was in a larger pot, small root system, and horrible soil). Also morning or evening waterings? Or does it matter. The trees are on the west porch so it gets from about 3pm to evening full sun.

 

[Shibui]

It certainly does matter how much water you give the trees. Not enough WILL surely kill your junipers. Too much MAY kill junipers. I know which way I prefer to go. With your pumice mix it should be very hard to over water trees. Not too sure about the akadama as the one experience I have had was that it stayed very wet.
Just for your info I water TWICE a day EVERY day in summer. It does not matter if it rains or not I still water morning and evening unless we get a run of very wet days (which is very unusual for my area in summer). I have not had any root problems with the junipers here under that regime using a well drained potting mix.
How often you need to water varies from person to person and place to place. It depends so much on the type of soil mix, local temps and wind, north or south slope, surrounding vegetation and so much more. use the chops sticks or dig down a little to check sub surface moisture levels until you have a better handle on how your potting mix behaves in your area.

Also BTW 88F is not really hot. That's a nice summer day. It is officially hot when temps go over 100F and it is only a heat wave if there's 4 days in a row over 100. My junipers manage in full sun through many 100F+ days over our summer. I guess it all comes back to what you get used to.

 

[Nurse_Firefighter390]

88F in Ohio is hot due to the humidity in the air. But I watered this morning and will see if I what it looks like tonight. Thanks for your comments. Keep you posted on the status of these trees lol

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

Using the wooden skewer or wooden or bamboo chop stick, the stick is stuck in the pot, and left there continuously, 24 / 7 It takes significant time to saturate the wood. Sticking a chop stick in for a few minutes is not a good indicator.

But I prefer to use my finger. I dig my finger in to the first knuckle. Unless you have neuropathy, the finger is far more sensitive to moisture than any bamboo skewer or water meter. If it feels bone dry, you should have watered a day previous. If it is barely damp, time to water. If it feels wet, check again tomorrow.

I also lift up the pot to notice the weight. A light pot will be dry, a wet pot will feel heavy. A week or two of noticing the heft of your pots as they go from wet to dry will "calibrate" your sense of weight, soon you won't have to stick your finger in the pot, the weight will tell you exactly how wet or dry the tree is.

A mix with uniform particle size, all fines removed, all coarse chunks removed, will have maximum air penetration and be more difficult to overwater. If you used a sieve to remove fines from your media, you should not have to worry about overwatering.

 

[Shibui]

88 with humidity feels hot to us because it is difficult to cool by evaporation. Plants do not work the same way. Humid air helps them and saves on water use. Dry air may not feel as hot but is far more stressful to the plants. With high humidity you may only need water once a day but as already stated that will depend so much on lots of other factors so keep checking every day until you get a feel for your trees in your location.
Ditto for the chopstick left in the pots to be useful and the finger was invented before the chopstick and is far better measuring tool.

 

[Arizona bonsai]

This sensor has been very helpful to me as I have over watered some larger jade plants. Also a good tool when having a house sitter do your bonsai watering while you’re away.
It has no battery, just dissimilar metals.

 

[rockm]

This sensor has been very helpful to me as I have over watered some larger jade plants. Also a good tool when having a house sitter do your bonsai watering while you’re away.
It has no battery, just dissimilar metals.

FWIW, Water meters tend to work VERY poorly in proper bonsai soil. The meters measure moisture between soil particles by conductivity. Since bonsai soil particles are so large, you most always wind up with a "dry" reading. That can lead to overwatering...

 

[Arizona bonsai]

I’m not using traditional bonsai soil, mine is a mix of cactus soil & perlite and it does work good in that for me.

I didn’t think about the problem in normal bonsai soil, good point!

 

[Matt B]

Since the water meters measure conductivity, the more salt or dissolved solids in the soil, the wetter it will read. If you stick the business end of that water meter in a glass of distilled water, it will read "dry". Those things are a waste of money.

If you have a dainty finger, and can reach the bottom on the pot, its the best indicator. I have baseball mitts for hands, so sticking my finger to the bottom of the pot is technically possible, but then a repot will be needed.

A skewer is a good tool when used in conjunction with a finger, wrist or back of the hand. It does not need to become saturated or sit in the soil for hours. Stick the skewer in, let it sit for five seconds, take it out and touch it to your favorite part of the anatomy to check for moisture. A good compromise.

 

[Arizona bonsai]

Matt, you’re correct, I tried the meter in our RO water & it read dryer then our tap water. I have had this for a few years & does work for me. Maybe it’s the high salt & mineral Amounts in our water.

I will check closer though to make sure my trees are getting enough water.

 

[Nurse_Firefighter390]

Since Memorial Day I feel like the plants are doing well, I am only watering as needed. But it feels like it’s been every day if not twice a day (Day/night), during our Ohio hot humid days.

Just for my knowledge is the browning of the two primary limbs death or is that hardening of the branches? I have also noticed few needles turning brown or yellow is that just old growth dying? Lastly, the roots that are exposed from the soil is that bad or okay Or just ignore it.
Thanks for the input

 

[NOZZLE HEAD]

Those look like healthy branches to me, just hardening off.

The first thing a conifer cuts loose when stressed is the interior needles.

Needles more than a few years old (depends on the species) fall off regardless.

 

[Nurse_Firefighter390]

The first thing a conifer cuts loose when stressed is the interior needles.

I wonder what is causing the stress on the tree then? They have been outside, when I transplanted them I did not disrupt the roots. Only watering when the soil is dry about a knuckle deep. And no pruning/trimming has occurred on the tree.

Or could it be that I am over caring The tree and not patient and just letting it grow... ha

 

[NOZZLE HEAD]

I wouldn’t worry about the interior needle loss on that tree, if the branch is hardening off it’s old enough that it will be dropping needles.

 

[Shibui]

Evergreen leaves (needles) are only effective at photosynthesis when they are young. After 2 or 3 years they don't work well any more so the tree drops them as the newer ones have taken over the job. If only the oldest (lowest) needles are turning brown it is likely just normal senescence. If younger needles near the ends of branches start to brown that would be stress and you can worry then.
Branches progress from green when young to brown as the bark matures.
Both are perfectly normal for your tree.

Exposed roots are not really a problem for the tree as long as the ends are buried. Exposed roots just grow bark and harden up. Bonsai growers like to show some exposed roots near the trunk because that's a feature of older trees. However, from an aesthetic point of view all those thin roots above soil level just looks messy. They are not the roots close to the trunk that makes it look old. They are the product of just slip potting a pot grown tree into a smaller pot. It is probably going to be difficult to do much now. It won't hurt the tree so probably leave alone for now. Next time you repot the roots should be untangled and cut back before potting up properly.