Pre-bonsai pruning

giventofly

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So I have some acers just growing until I can do something with them, currently I'm we are entering/on spring and I wanted it to grow, but at the same time try to start to give it some shape. At what point can I prune? Always during spring/summer ? How much ?

1648226216211.png
 

MSU JBoots

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I’m still a total noob but I’m guessing the main response will be something along the lines of wire the trunk to give it movement but no pruning. Let it grow wild to fatten up the trunk. Maybe even let it grow in the ground to hasten the growing process.
 

giventofly

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I put it with soil in the bottom to let the roots come out. I was intending in let some branches go, but was expecting I would need to cut some to force the growth in other places.

Also, if I wire what can I do? I don't want to make it a informal upright, but I'm open to any other style
 

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Again I know very little. It seems there is very little there to try to design at this point. I would say with a trunk that slender you could wire it now to likely make the beginning of any style you wish.
 

Shibui

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You can prune maples at any time in the development process. Pruning this young will slow down growth and trunk thickening but the upside it the final bonsai is usually much better though it may take an extra 10 years to get there.
I prefer to create bends in maples by pruning to a side branch then grow again. Wired bends always seem to look artificial.

Not sure why you don't like informal upright or what you have in mind for informal upright with Japanese maple.
Your little tree is currently vertical in the pot so does that mean you would like to grow a formal upright tree? Probably not really natural shape for Japanese maple.
You could try a leaning tree. They do not seem to like growing down so cascade is probably out of the question and I don't think windswept is appropriate for JM either as they don't grow well in exposed areas so would rarely grow that way naturally.

For JM my favorite style is what growers have started to call 'natural' style with large rising branches (almost sub trunks) and fine twigs at the ends to form the canopy. This seems to be the shape the vast majority of JM grow naturally so I think it suits the tree well.

The tree in the picture appears to have quite long internodes which is common with commercial trees because they grow them fast to sell quick but long internodes can make it difficult to make a bonsai because it limits where branches will grow in future. Whether these internodes will be a problem depends on how large a bonsai you intend to develop.
 

giventofly

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Very good points.

I do like informal upright, I was more of thinking in those very well round shapes in a spiral that is unattractive to me.

I have time, wasn't expecting to have anything good anytime soon, but was at least expecting in the range of 5 years to have something.

Regarding the long internodes, should I cut them to slowing down the tapering but increasing the ramification? I want to do what is best. Let me show some example of what I like in case that helps to give me some pointers:

1648311708911.png1648311722741.png1648311743971.png

To make something similar to the third one, how can that be achieved?
 

SeanS

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Very good points.

I do like informal upright, I was more of thinking in those very well round shapes in a spiral that is unattractive to me.

I have time, wasn't expecting to have anything good anytime soon, but was at least expecting in the range of 5 years to have something.

Regarding the long internodes, should I cut them to slowing down the tapering but increasing the ramification? I want to do what is best. Let me show some example of what I like in case that helps to give me some pointers:

View attachment 426805View attachment 426806View attachment 426807

To make something similar to the third one, how can that be achieved?

Here’s EXACTLY how the third tree was created 😉
 

Shibui

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Let me show some example of what I like in case that helps to give me some pointers:
These pics show what I mentioned as 'natural' style and is also how I'd like to see maple bonsai grown.
I have not checked @SeanS link but I've found that lots of grow and chop usually produces good trunks with bends and taper.
After that it's a matter of selecting appropriate shoots and directing them to produce your branching. More grow and chop to develop branching with bends and taper but now slow the growth rates to reduce internode length to allow more ramification.
Regarding the long internodes, should I cut them to slowing down the tapering but increasing the ramification?
It may be a little early in development to worry about internodes. To develop the types of trunk you have shown you'll be growing and chopping several times over 3-5 years so very little of what you now see will be part of the future bonsai.

Note that the trees shown have slanting lower trunks. Yours has a vertical trunk. I try to plant young maples at an angle to get that lower trunk movement from the start. Chopping to the lowest branch (not now) may yield a similar trunk to pics 2 and 3.
 

giventofly

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When the tree is full grown, can I make such a drastic cut by the bottom? With no visible nodes?
 

Shibui

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Nodes do not need to be visible. Old nodes tend to disappear under growing bark but the nodes are still there and can grow but it appears that those nodes gradually lose the ability to sprout. There comes a time when chopping really low becomes a gamble but it is hard to put an age or time on that.
Safer to chop in increments - back to the lowers healthy branch for safety but hoping for more buds to emerge lower.
In the case of this tree I would try to keep the lowest branches alive so you have something to cut back to. When you cut back to and existing branch there's no problem.

Also note that I do not grow maples to full trunk thickness then chop back. That leaves far too big a scar that takes years to heal. You also need to spend more years growing a new trunk and apex on the stump. I've found it better to do a series of grow and chops every few years. The trunk still thickens but will develop those bends and much needed taper while you develop the trunk thickness. It may take a couple more years to reach final size but you'll save more than that in the final phase of growing the new apex and branches.
 
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