Preparing Junipers For Collection

[ShadyStump]

The previous owner of our new home planted dozens of junipers and a couple pines of various varieties (still working on identifications) around the field as a privacy wall. Some are rather spindly and leggy, and have been beat up and stunted by weather, placement, competing trees and wildlife, so I plan to dig a few of those in coming weeks or a month or so (we'll see what the weather does) before my wife gets happy with a chainsaw.

I've spaded around them already to cut back any long surface roots, but I'm wondering if I can cut them back some, or shape them at all now. The two on my mind right now each have one tall trunk with a few tufts of foliage on the end- literati style- but shorter fuller branches near the base with no shortage of interest. Both have reverted to juvenile foliage, and I'm not certain what that means for health.

So, should/could I take the long trunks off and/or shape them now while still in the ground to get a month's head start, or be more cautious and wait a year until they've recovered from potting? No shortage of other trees if they don't make it, just not as much potential.

 

[JackHammer]

I am in the exact same position.
My junipers are very overgrown and I don't think they have the lower branches that I am really looking for. When you cut the trunk, will shoots still grow out of it near to the base, or will they only grow out at the apex? Some of the trunks I am looking at are about 4 inches.

 

[Paradox]

I am in the exact same position.
My junipers are very overgrown and I don't think they have the lower branches that I am really looking for. When you cut the trunk, will shoots still grow out of it near to the base, or will they only grow out at the apex? Some of the trunks I am looking at are about 4 inches.

Junipers can't be chopped like a maple can. If there is no foliage below the chop it will die

 

[JackHammer]

Junipers can't be chopped like a maple can. If there is no foliage below the chop it will die

So the better path would be to grow air roots, correct?

 

[ShadyStump]

So the better path would be to grow air roots, correct?

I think you mean air layering? It's my understanding that many junipers air layer fairly easily, but I'm such a novice that I couldn't tell you more than that. Read up on the forum, use the hell out of the search function. At this point I feel I have a grasp of the theory thanks to these folks. It's the practice and technique I'm still lacking.

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

If they are weak and spindly right now, they're weak due to the condition they're in. Styling might shade out some parts and cause them to decline further.

Digging them up and providing the best care should be the first goal. From there on forward you'll have much stronger trees that give you a better response.

 

[Shibui]

I've spaded around them already to cut back any long surface roots, but I'm wondering if I can cut them back some, or shape them at all now. The two on my mind right now each have one tall trunk with a few tufts of foliage on the end- literati style- but shorter fuller branches near the base with no shortage of interest. Both have reverted to juvenile foliage, and I'm not certain what that means for health.

Juvenile foliage is usually the result of some stress but could be water, shade, pruning, near death experience or many others. The fact they are now growing well means the problem is probably past.
Sounds like the lower branches have enough foliage to maintain the tree and that is where the future bonsai is so I would probably chop the tall trunks before or at collection. As long as there is good active growing points like the low branches transplant should be OK.

 

[Potawatomi13]

Is it not true Juniper get strength/recovery from foliage so cutting off could be death of tree? Perhaps could be done in ground and replant later. Next year? As far as chainsaw murderer who wears the pants?

 

[RJG2]

As far as chainsaw murderer who wears the pants?

**Chaps

I'd be impressed of my wife picked up the chainsaw.

 

[leatherback]

I would trim the junipers, LEAVING decent amount of green on the tree, on branches that you want to keep.
Added light to the inside, and the reduced canopy will create reason for the tree to budd on older branches.

This is however a growing season wait.

I did this with bushes at my parents new place. I asked them to prune them back to the first decent tufts of green on each branch, and to start watering them near the trunk. At the end of spring we used a spade to cut around the rootball. Come fall, I lifted compact trees in my car. The digging took maybe 10 minutes for 3 trees with 6 inch trunks, 6ft tall, full of inner growth.

It wil depend on the type & species of juniper I suppose...

 

[ShadyStump]

Is it not true Juniper get strength/recovery from foliage so cutting off could be death of tree? Perhaps could be done in ground and replant later. Next year? As far as chainsaw murderer who wears the pants?

Oh, my wife will do it in a moomoo if she thinks she can get away with it.
Last week she came across some electric jaw saw loppers and took out every trunk of that alder stand I was planning to attempt air layering this spring. It got revenge, though. A couple of them fell right on her.

But I do believe you're right, it's a matter of timing, though. I have until summer at the latest. We have fruit trees on order and cuttings rooting now, and their new homes will be wherever there's an empty spot in the existing trees. The junipers I'm looking at will get chopped for being sickly and in the way, or dug first to save them.

 

[sorce]

Pics!

Some of the bushes.
One of the Alders.
Definitely one of the Chainsaw Wielding Wife!

IMO, doesn't matter who has pants so long as everyone has legs to put them on after all is said and done!

I wouldn't cut anything off, but if I had to, I wouldn't touch any of the healthiest tips. Cut no Runners.

And don't take everything junky looking off, keep things for long game plans. But do remove energy robbers.

Sorce

 

[ShadyStump]

Pics!

Some of the bushes.
One of the Alders.
Definitely one of the Chainsaw Wielding Wife!

IMO, doesn't matter who has pants so long as everyone has legs to put them on after all is said and done!

I wouldn't cut anything off, but if I had to, I wouldn't touch any of the healthiest tips. Cut no Runners.

And don't take everything junky looking off, keep things for long game plans. But do remove energy robbers.

Sorce

It was getting late and the light was waning when was out last night, and I work late tonight, so no pics, sorry. Maybe I'll be able to get some tomorrow morning.

I'm taking it that the juvenile foliage is more a sign of recovery than the harm done then. Is that right?

The junipers in question each have a base full of natural jins with some reasonable foliage as wide as my spade head was long on a trunk about three fingers thick, though I'm not sure how far it goes below ground level, and one long tall trunk sticking straight up. One is about 1 1/2 yards/meters tall, the other about 1, both have some decent flex in them. The taller one I was going to chop off, the shorter I'm considering making a literati with one or two low secondary branches, but we'll see how I feel about the trunk and roots when it comes out.

And the chainsaw wielding wife is more of a funniest home videos thing. Epic determination meets epic fail meets "oh, no you didn't," and then we're back to determination.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

I would skip the "prep work". Just dig, chop, & pot up, all on the same day. Remember that junipers need foliage with growing tips to fuel root growth. Also junipers are medium strong on the compartmentalization spectrum. Meaning one root supports one branch. And one branch fuels re-growth of one part of the root system.

So when you prune - keep growing tips on at least 4 sides of the root system. You want radial arrangement of growing tips, in order to be able to have the juniper develop a radial root spread.

So that is my advice. Do it all at once, and keep growing tips on all sides of the trunk if you want roots on all sides of the nebari.

 

[HorseloverFat]

 

[Shibui]

Is it not true Juniper get strength/recovery from foliage so cutting off could be death of tree?

There appears to be a strong belief that this is the case but I think it has been blown out of proportion. You do not need EVERY bit of foliage for a juniper to transplant. I find that removing up to half of the existing foliage is fine for juniper transplant but that half does not include ALL of the growing tips. It is fine to take off some redundant branches entirely provided you do leave around half of the growing tips intact.

I'm taking it that the juvenile foliage is more a sign of recovery than the harm done then. Is that right?

I agree with this. Plenty of healthy juvenile growth means recovery from something.

I would skip the "prep work". Just dig, chop, & pot up, all on the same day. Remember that junipers need foliage with growing tips to fuel root growth.

This is also my usual method. i find that inevitably spading or trenching is much to far out from the trunk so those roots that have worked hard to produce new feeders where they were cut usually need reducing again at collection so no real advantage of trenching. Keep a good number of growing tips but does not mean slavishly keeping every growing tip.

Meaning one root supports one branch. And one branch fuels re-growth of one part of the root system.

This I am not convinced of. I can cut a spiral shari up the trunk of my shimpaku and no branches die. How does that happen if each branch is served by one root?
I think the origins of this is in older trunks where some areas may be dead or declining so there are actually limited sap paths from roots to branches. At that stage one root may indeed be feeding a single branch. On older trees or trees with damaged trunks it is very wise to check for active cambium before deciding to make shari or cutting branches. Often the bark is still intact and looks OK from the outside but the cambium may be dead underneath.
If the tree does have one branch feeding one part of the root system but that particular branch is of no use in the design it will still need to be removed. The roots that die as a result are not actually feeding the parts of the tree that will be kept (otherwise they would not die). As a result of extensive use of collected junipers in Japan, and possibly the way junipers grow and the environment they grow in, all round nebari is not seen as really important in juniper bonsai.

 

[dlayton]

The previous owner of our new home planted dozens of junipers and a couple pines of various varieties (still working on identifications) around the field as a privacy wall. Some are rather spindly and leggy, and have been beat up and stunted by weather, placement, competing trees and wildlife, so I plan to dig a few of those in coming weeks or a month or so (we'll see what the weather does) before my wife gets happy with a chainsaw.

I've spaded around them already to cut back any long surface roots, but I'm wondering if I can cut them back some, or shape them at all now. The two on my mind right now each have one tall trunk with a few tufts of foliage on the end- literati style- but shorter fuller branches near the base with no shortage of interest. Both have reverted to juvenile foliage, and I'm not certain what that means for health.

So, should/could I take the long trunks off and/or shape them now while still in the ground to get a month's head start, or be more cautious and wait a year until they've recovered from potting? No shortage of other trees if they don't make it, just not as much potential.

Can we get pics?

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

There appears to be a strong belief that this is the case but I think it has been blown out of proportion. You do not need EVERY bit of foliage for a juniper to transplant. I find that removing up to half of the existing foliage is fine for juniper transplant but that half does not include ALL of the growing tips. It is fine to take off some redundant branches entirely provided you do leave around half of the growing tips intact.


I agree with this. Plenty of healthy juvenile growth means recovery from something.

This is also my usual method. i find that inevitably spading or trenching is much to far out from the trunk so those roots that have worked hard to produce new feeders where they were cut usually need reducing again at collection so no real advantage of trenching. Keep a good number of growing tips but does not mean slavishly keeping every growing tip.

This I am not convinced of. I can cut a spiral shari up the trunk of my shimpaku and no branches die. How does that happen if each branch is served by one root?
I think the origins of this is in older trunks where some areas may be dead or declining so there are actually limited sap paths from roots to branches. At that stage one root may indeed be feeding a single branch. On older trees or trees with damaged trunks it is very wise to check for active cambium before deciding to make shari or cutting branches. Often the bark is still intact and looks OK from the outside but the cambium may be dead underneath.
If the tree does have one branch feeding one part of the root system but that particular branch is of no use in the design it will still need to be removed. The roots that die as a result are not actually feeding the parts of the tree that will be kept (otherwise they would not die). As a result of extensive use of collected junipers in Japan, and possibly the way junipers grow and the environment they grow in, all round nebari is not seen as really important in juniper bonsai.

Note that I qualified my statement with "moderately strong", most deciduous trees are fairly weak on this spectrum. I find cork bark JBP are very strong on this spectrum. Junipers are in the middle or toward the stronger level of compartmentalization. Definitely they are not absolutely one to one, but especially older junipers do exhibit a fair amount of compartmentalization. On a young juniper you certainly can cut a spiral shari, and it will not drop a lot of branches or abort a lot of roots. But as you noted, older junipers have been observed to exhibit the one to one compartmentalization. I don't think there is a lot of "good data", and I will acknowledge that. So yes, young junipers do not show as strong a compartmentalization, older junipers do indeed show some significant compartmentalization.

The result is, the older the juniper you collect, the more you should be concerned about preserving living, growing branch ends on the sides of the trunk that you want live roots.

 

[ShadyStump]

Told ya. Moomoo and an overcoat hacking up trees.

 

[ShadyStump]

Oh, you meant the trees!
I guess this is a bonsai community.
The shorter one, about 1 meter. Thinking about keeping the tall trunk for some sort of literati.


The tall one, almost 2 meters. Almost definitely going to lose that tall trunk. Too big for my liking, and half eaten by deer.

Sorry about the awful pic quality. Best I could do on lunch break.