Presumed recurrent fungal infection on Trident Maple

Lars Grimm

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Yes pH was mentioned but Clark's was spot-on.
Yeah, there was great skepticism from Guy Guidry about whether Clark's pH was accurate. I was surprised at how confident he was, but he must have seen the same problem himself before. For what it's worth, Clark's appearance on the tridents is identical to mine.
 

markyscott

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Yeah, there was great skepticism from Guy Guidry about whether Clark's pH was accurate. I was surprised at how confident he was, but he must have seen the same problem himself before. For what it's worth, Clark's appearance on the tridents is identical to mine.
Nothing wrong with working on pH and I have a lot of time for Guy Guidry. But I believe this to be a fungal problem and not directly related to pH imbalance. Certainly lowering pH will lead to more efficient uptake of nutrients and a healthier, more disease resistant tree. That definitely helps, but I urge you to continue working the fungal angle and definitely not neglect dormant season treatment - I’m absolutely religious about it.

S
 

Lars Grimm

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Nothing wrong with working on pH and I have a lot of time for Guy Guidry. But I believe this to be a fungal problem and not directly related to pH imbalance. Certainly lowering pH will lead to more efficient uptake of nutrients and a healthier, more disease resistant tree. That definitely helps, but I urge you to continue working the fungal angle and definitely not neglect dormant season treatment - I’m absolutely religious about it.

S
Right now I am leaning towards a multiprong approach:
- Soil pH treatment with Guy Guidry approach
- Antifungal with hydrogen peroxide topical and Cleary 3336 systemic
- Exposure issues with Dytek, no fertilizer, protection from direct sun and rain

One of my club members pointed out that I may be over fertilizing and having too much sun exposure given the new growth.
 

Lars Grimm

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I’m seeing the same on a trident. In my case wet foliage is a likely contributing factor. I’m now trying mancozeb (and changing the watering). It’s been getting regular sprays of a different fungicide too, without effect.
Any success so far?
 

Lars Grimm

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Well, I just gave my second dose of Cleary's systemic, 14 days after the first. I have sprayed 3 times with a hydrogen peroxide solution the morning after a rainstorm and I gave one spray of daconil to the leaves. I have also tried two doses of the magnesium solution recommended by Guy Guidry as well as using the Dynatek. I have been sure not to water any leaves and cut back on watering the soil until the leaves look ready to droop just slightly. I have also put it in some light shade.

I can't say that things are improving much though. Here is some of the new growth from today. They are a little wilted because it was 95 degree today but you can still see the brown/black tips. I have this to a very minor extent on a few other trident and japanese maples, but nothing as severe as on this tree.

252995252996
 

TomB

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too soon to say, it's only been a few days
New flush of leaves are coming through on mine now, and looking much healthier than the last lot so far.
 

namnhi

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Well, I just gave my second dose of Cleary's systemic, 14 days after the first. I have sprayed 3 times with a hydrogen peroxide solution the morning after a rainstorm and I gave one spray of daconil to the leaves. I have also tried two doses of the magnesium solution recommended by Guy Guidry as well as using the Dynatek. I have been sure not to water any leaves and cut back on watering the soil until the leaves look ready to droop just slightly. I have also put it in some light shade.

I can't say that things are improving much though. Here is some of the new growth from today. They are a little wilted because it was 95 degree today but you can still see the brown/black tips. I have this to a very minor extent on a few other trident and japanese maples, but nothing as severe as on this tree.

View attachment 252995View attachment 252996
I think the sun and the temp also added to the problem. It is just too damn hot for maples this time of the year. I think that weaken the tree too much that it can't fight off the fungus.
 

Lars Grimm

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I think the sun and the temp also added to the problem. It is just too damn hot for maples this time of the year. I think that weaken the tree too much that it can't fight off the fungus.
Yeah, I am trying to up my shade coverage. I moved to a new place and so in the past I was always fighting for more sun, now I am fighting to cover some of it....
 

0soyoung

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Strange that first flush is okay, then shit happens - 3 years running.
tree puts out great growth in spring and the leaves harden off without any problem. I typically do an initial pruning of the long runners in May and then in June the new leaves that emerge take on a sickly appearance. You can see from the photos that they have brown/black tips and are curled up. The tree gets plenty of water,
How certain are you that you don't overwater it?
It is doing great, you reduce the foliage load (= reduce the transpiration rate), keep pouring the water on like you have been .... every year.

Maybe it is hard to believe, but ....

The recurring problem does not seem to be responsive to antifungals = maybe it isn't fungal.
It is the same tap water before as when this occurs as after = no pH, or certainly you should be able to verify/refute with the Water Dept.
etc.

hmmmm 🤔
 

0soyoung

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I think the sun and the temp also added to the problem. It is just too damn hot for maples this time of the year. I think that weaken the tree too much that it can't fight off the fungus.
Smoke keeps tridents in Fresno. 100F-ish afternoons, every day.

Too damn hot for people, for sure.
 

Lars Grimm

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Strange that first flush is okay, then shit happens - 3 years running.

How certain are you that you don't overwater it?
It is doing great, you reduce the foliage load (= reduce the transpiration rate), keep pouring the water on like you have been .... every year.

Maybe it is hard to believe, but ....

The recurring problem does not seem to be responsive to antifungals = maybe it isn't fungal.
It is the same tap water before as when this occurs as after = no pH, or certainly you should be able to verify/refute with the Water Dept.
etc.

hmmmm 🤔
A senior club member thought it might be a combination of overfertilizing and pruning producing a flush of weaker growth that could not handle the higher temps and sun. I have removed all fertilizer and put it into some shade without much help.

I do overwater given my work schedule, but I am using a non-organic mix of akadama, pumice, and lava rock. My understanding that it was pretty much impossible to overwater with this type of mix. The soil may stay a bit overly wet but it is not sodden enough to get root rot. I have cut back on the watering though recently just in case.

I mostly use tap water so it is the same throughout the growing season. It's probably worth me getting it tested anyway though.
 

bwaynef

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You can take a water sample to a pet store and they'll test ph, (and a couple others), ...or you can just buy the test kit and see for yourself. Also, you can check with your municipality for their water quality report. Unless something's gone wrong, it'll likely be current as to what's coming out of your faucet.
 

Lars Grimm

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You can take a water sample to a pet store and they'll test ph, (and a couple others), ...or you can just buy the test kit and see for yourself. Also, you can check with your municipality for their water quality report. Unless something's gone wrong, it'll likely be current as to what's coming out of your faucet.
According to my county water report the pH average is 7.4-7.5. So maybe pH really is a bit of a problem for me. My understanding is that I want it ideally in the 6.5-6.8 range.

 

0soyoung

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Just curious whether the tree's roots happen to be kept moist during emergence of the first flush by rain and then, after it has hardened, it becomes necessary for you, @Lars Grimm. to water about the same time as you then cut it back.
 

Lars Grimm

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Just curious whether the tree's roots happen to be kept moist during emergence of the first flush by rain and then, after it has hardened, it becomes necessary for you, @Lars Grimm. to water about the same time as you then cut it back.
Hmm, I'm not 100% sure I follow you. Can you perhaps rephrase?
 

0soyoung

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Hmm, I'm not 100% sure I follow you. Can you perhaps rephrase?
If you water from 'buds swell' onward, tap water is an explanation IFF the water department annually changes something about your water supply about the time your first flush has hardened.
-->very unlikely, but public records should prove/disprove​
If you don't water the tree until the second flush
-->tap water indicated to be the cause​
I am asking if tap water is really indicated to be the cause. Do you apply water from the tap to the tree when buds are breaking each year?​
 

bwaynef

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He's asking, did it get watered by rain when it was first leafing out, ...and then you started watering it about the same time you cut it back?
 

Lars Grimm

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If you water from 'buds swell' onward, tap water is an explanation IFF the water department annually changes something about your water supply about the time your first flush has hardened.
-->very unlikely, but public records should prove/disprove​
If you don't water the tree until the second flush
-->tap water indicated to be the cause​
I am asking if tap water is really indicated to be the cause. Do you apply water from the tap to the tree when buds are breaking each year?​
I understand now. Yes, I use tap water when buds are breaking. We do get rain in the spring, but often more in the later spring after buds have already broken. So, I use the same tap water to water my trees throughout the year.
 

Lars Grimm

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I reached out to Matt Ouwinga and he felt pretty confident that it was a systemic fungal problem. He made the excellent point though that you only get good absorption of a systemic antifungal if you have a healthy, large leaf canopy to draw up the treatment. Essentially, he believes you need to outgrow it by increasing vigor of the tree. Spraying the leaves will not achieve any benefit. He advocated being super diligent water usage and using very dilute fertilizer to try and increase growth.
 
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