Price hikes because of tariffs

[Wires_Guy_wires]

A company I have worked for makes meat processing materials. Entire factories even. They were quite happy with the tarrifs. They were able to raise their price to a few percent above said tarrifs. Now they profit even more than they did, many companies are repeating that process of adding a few %'s extra. That's not good for the US economy. They pay more, get less. I don't expect that to change soon.

But indeed, ebay stays king for the smaller stuff.

 

[rockm]

Everyones a pundit or lobyist it seems these days. Steel glory days are gone for sure but it would be nice to see some of these jobs come back for those families who have steel in their blood. I want everyone to have a job so not rooting to sacrifice other jobs either! Would just like a more level playing field for all.

Not being a pundit, just realistic. Just because you agree with what a special interest says, doesn't make it NOT a special interest. The United Steel Workers are a special interest with and agenda and a wish list. Just because they say it's true, doesn't make it true or definitive. Same for every other special interest lobbying Washington for the last 200 years.

 

[rockm]

In essence they buy from a Chinese maker that gets steel (or maybe just the ore) from the US. Therefore it has US origins.

I don't know, to me it is deceptive when they don't even have one single tool that is "made" in the US. From the statement they gave me there "goal" does not even reflect American "made" only to have American "origins." That is lawyer speak and a loophole to the truth. If you can't even trust their name to be legit, what can you trust?

So they are not "technically" lying but they certainly are attempting to capture a certain market segment with creative information.

I don't think they're lying. I think it gets to the argument over what is "American made." It's a debate that has been around for a while. Cars made in the U.S. are ASSEMBLED here, but have parts and raw materials that are sourced from all over the world, including Asia. Same is probably true for what AB is doing. It could be buying steel from importers who get bulk from China. AB could then be shaping that steel and assembling its products here. That would be "American MADE" which doesn't NECESSARILY mean the materials they're using to MAKE their product originate in the U.S. All this is dependent on the supply chain...

 

[Vance Wood]

USW is the definitve source. I guarantee they are no friends of current admin. See the article below.

That too is a problem; being an adversary to the current administration is often the suggestion of manufactured facts to make a point. We live in a moment in time where the truth is what we want it to be, manufactured or not. What it really is often remains floating in muddy waters.

 

[Lorax7]

I would love to see your formula? Can you provide that information without using any population.

You can’t do a direct comparison of the US to other countries because of size differences. So, you normalize to a basis in order to be able to make comparisons. I suggested GDP, but there are other suitable bases.

The formula is simply:
A = Total cost of providing free college / How much income do we have (GDP)
B(x) = Total expenditure of country x to provide free college to all their people / How much income does country x have (their GDP)

Compute B(x) over the set of all x’s that provide free college for their people. Also compute summary statistics (mean, median, standard deviation). Compare A and B to determine the feasibility of the US providing free college for its people.

 

[Bananaman]

You can’t do a direct comparison of the US to other countries because of size differences. So, you normalize to a basis in order to be able to make comparisons. I suggested GDP, but there are other suitable bases.

The formula is simply:
A = Total cost of providing free college / How much income do we have (GDP)
B(x) = Total expenditure of country x to provide free college to all their people / How much income does country x have (their GDP)

Compute B(x) over the set of all x’s that provide free college for their people. Also compute summary statistics (mean, median, standard deviation). Compare A and B to determine the feasibility of the US providing free college for its people.

"You can’t do a direct comparison of the US to other countries because of size differences".. (physical size or population size???)
"A = Total cost of providing free college" (based on how many people units correct?)
"B(x) = Total expenditure of country x to provide free college to all their people" (How is this not based on population?)

Please lets compare apples to apples, give me a industrialized nation providing free healthcare and college and lets take that nation and balloon it to the population of America and see where it stands. And also, lets tack on what America does for lots of industrialized nations in support financially and paying for that nations share of providing protection and keeping them in the United Nations and other International crap.

 

[sparklemotion]

"You can’t do a direct comparison of the US to other countries because of size differences".. (physical size or population size???)
"A = Total cost of providing free college" (based on how many people units correct?)
"B(x) = Total expenditure of country x to provide free college to all their people" (How is this not based on population?)

Please lets compare apples to apples, give me a industrialized nation providing free healthcare and college and lets take that nation and balloon it to the population of America and see where it stands. And also, lets tack on what America does for lots of industrialized nations in support financially and paying for that nations share of providing protection and keeping them in the United Nations and other International crap.

You and @Lorax7 seem to be talking at crossed purposes. In your restating of the equation you're leaving out GDP, which stands for Gross Domestic Production. It's a measure of the total economy of a country and, varies based on population (as in: countries with more people tend to have a larger GDP). It's a little more complicated -- when we talk about rich vs. poor countries, usually we are considering GDP per capita. As in, GDP per person. Here is the CIA Factbook's list (kind of old, 2004, but we can go with it).

The US is #20 in GDP per capita. If you look at the countries between 10 and 40ish. Most of them have healthcare and tuition costs that, if not free, might as well be free compared to US costs.

Let's look at Germany. Their GDP per capita is 83% of the US. Tuition at their public colleges is free. Their healthcare is primarily public funded but adult workers do need to pay 7.3% of their income as a premium (children, spouses are free). If you want to play games with the word "free" you could roll the 7.3% into "taxes" and then yes, healthcare care is free for all.

Should the US move to a more German (or Canadian, or Belgian system) maybe, maybe not. But anyone who tells you at that it is financially (as opposed to politically) impossible is either misinformed or lying.

And -- to tie this back to bonsai tools and equipment: Trade wars are going to make the bonsai hobby more expensive. Personally, I worry about the small businesses (like Stone Lantern or American Bonsai) who are going to be getting squeezed on costs at the same time that their customers are seeing prices rise in other areas. When elephants fight, the grass suffers. Hopefully we'll remember that most of the folks that make their livings from bonsai are also the grass.

 

[Bananaman]

You and @Lorax7 seem to be talking at crossed purposes. In your restating of the equation you're leaving out GDP, which stands for Gross Domestic Production. It's a measure of the total economy of a country and, varies based on population (as in: countries with more people tend to have a larger GDP). It's a little more complicated -- when we talk about rich vs. poor countries, usually we are considering GDP per capita. As in, GDP per person. Here is the CIA Factbook's list (kind of old, 2004, but we can go with it).

The US is #20 in GDP per capita. If you look at the countries between 10 and 40ish. Most of them have healthcare and tuition costs that, if not free, might as well be free compared to US costs.

Let's look at Germany. Their GDP per capita is 83% of the US. Tuition at their public colleges is free. Their healthcare is primarily public funded but adult workers do need to pay 7.3% of their income as a premium (children, spouses are free). If you want to play games with the word "free" you could roll the 7.3% into "taxes" and then yes, healthcare care is free for all.

Should the US move to a more German (or Canadian, or Belgian system) maybe, maybe not. But anyone who tells you at that it is financially (as opposed to politically) impossible is either misinformed or lying.

And -- to tie this back to bonsai tools and equipment: Trade wars are going to make the bonsai hobby more expensive. Personally, I worry about the small businesses (like Stone Lantern or American Bonsai) who are going to be getting squeezed on costs at the same time that their customers are seeing prices rise in other areas. When elephants fight, the grass suffers. Hopefully we'll remember that most of the folks that make their livings from bonsai are also the grass.

Maybe a simpler method would be to subtract welfare per capita from GDP and see what that yields. Either way you can’t have the largest welfare state in the world and free healthcare and free college. In that world work ceases to exist. It’s just not worth the burden.

 

[bonsai-ben]

Sounds like a promotion to me, as most of their "blog posts" are. They are all ads.

The price of wire didnt go up, they are just hoping you buy it now.

 

[Vin]

As my wife tells her students on occasion "Suck it up Buttercup" "We" have put ourselves in this situation as a nation and it's going to hurt a little bit until we come out the other side; and we will. Why do you think companies like AB source their tools from China? Think about it.. I personally don't mind paying a little bit more for things if it's going to get us off our ass and start producing goods in the U.S. again. The balance of trade has been unbalanced for way too long. It's time for a change.

 

[AZbonsai]

I get your point and definitive was a bad word choice on my part @Vance Wood @rockm

As they say words do matter. Look at the mess the words "free" and "Made in America" has created in this thread.

I feel like the "Mayhem" guy on the insurance commercial. Good grief I am outta here before I cause any more damage.
????

 

[0soyoung]

How are services, sold to other countries accounted for in trade? Take for example, Ryan Neil sells his services for club demos such as to the Northern Ireland Bonsai Society and Canberra Bonsai in Australia (these were also recorded and posted to YouTube). No goods were sold, only a service. Is this counted as an export from the US in the 'balance of trade'?

 

[Vin]

How are services, sold to other countries accounted for in trade? Take for example, Ryan Neil sells his services for club demos such as to the Northern Ireland Bonsai Society and Canberra Bonsai in Australia (these were also recorded and posted to YouTube). No goods were sold, only a service. Is this counted as an export from the US in the 'balance of trade'?

Tariffs are in place to restrict the amount of imports. Unless, for example, Ryan's type of service is identified on the Tariff's List then he's kind off the hook. However, his services may still be taxable as part of the taxation laws of Ireland or the United Kingdom. He will also have to report the income under U.S. Federal and probably State Law. But then again maybe I'm wrong.

 

[sparklemotion]

How are services, sold to other countries accounted for in trade? Take for example, Ryan Neil sells his services for club demos such as to the Northern Ireland Bonsai Society and Canberra Bonsai in Australia (these were also recorded and posted to YouTube). No goods were sold, only a service. Is this counted as an export from the US in the 'balance of trade'?

Services are counted with imports and exports (note the services trade surplus in this report for May, 2018: https://www.bea.gov/newsreleases/international/trade/tradnewsrelease.htm)

I am sure that the accounting is trickier though (it's not like they can just count containers coming off of a ship). And I doubt that there is a clean way to levy tariffs on services (at least the kind that involves a person doing a thing). I would assume that if it gets to that point, countries will start raising the price of/restricting working visas.

 

[Dan92119]

Ok a bit off topic...I am waiting(but not holding my breath) for food prices to go down. For the stuff that’s made here. I read an article recently that Mexico put high tariffs on cheese. And China I think on lobster. Those things don’t last forever. Where is the fire sale? Do we export beef? Looking to get a big steak for a good price!

 

[CasAH]

I am ok with that as long as this is happening:

https://m.usw.org/blog/2018/jobs-are-coming-back-to-steel-towns

I actually worked in a steel mill after high school. They are all gone in Chicago. I now work for a company that makes beverage cans. Cannot get away from pols screwing up trade.

Just heard a report that Massachusetts has more people employed in renewable energy fields, than the coal industry employ in the whole USA, but kill renewables in order to protect coal is a winning strategy for the country.

 

[AZbonsai]

employed in renewable energy fields, than

My family worked in auto plants.

I hear you. Not sure what is going on in these fields. There is a huge field of wind turbines near Indio CA. I have passed through it twice now in 6 months and 75 % of the turbines not operating. Never saw that before.

 

[Lorax7]

"You can’t do a direct comparison of the US to other countries because of size differences".. (physical size or population size???)
"A = Total cost of providing free college" (based on how many people units correct?)
"B(x) = Total expenditure of country x to provide free college to all their people" (How is this not based on population?)

Please lets compare apples to apples, give me a industrialized nation providing free healthcare and college and lets take that nation and balloon it to the population of America and see where it stands. And also, lets tack on what America does for lots of industrialized nations in support financially and paying for that nations share of providing protection and keeping them in the United Nations and other International crap.

A country’s apple production is also an unsuitable quantity to use for evaluating the feasibility of offering post-secondary education via public funding without charging tuition to students.

 

[Bananaman]

A country’s apple production is also an unsuitable quantity to use for evaluating the feasibility of offering post-secondary education via public funding without charging tuition to students.

It's OK I did some searching on taxes and VAT taxes, and medical taxes of European nations. I also found out median salaries to be quite low so in the the big picture, since I make big money, have great healthcare that I pay for and pay very low taxes and have complete control over my life, I feel that I am in the best place possible. If you don't have healthcare and can't afford to go to college, get a better job!!!

Go Kavanaugh!!!

 

[leatherback]

It ia shameful that in the richest country in history people cant afford to go to college or that they fall into poverty only because they get sick

Hm.. I thought Qatar had a national healthcare system that covered these sort of issues. And also school is still doable assuming both parents work. Not sure how this relates to the discussion on US production though?

In general, interesting times where we see in several fronts that national production is on the increase at a cost to globalization. A good test to see to what extent the wealth generated in the world is through global trade, and what is lost if we reduce globalism. I for one would be a big fan of bringing production back to more local systems, but more from an environmental point of view (let's stop lugging everything around the world). Although I cannot see the consequences everywhere, I think USA is going through a cuious transformation, and I hope that it has the outcome that DT predicts; More jobs, better income levels etc.

Has anyone seen actual shortage of products and or price hikes due to the tariffs?