Pricing Bonsai- how are prices determined?

[Bagels]

I think Ryan Neil once said something like this: Imagine a tree that has been in a pot for 40 years. It was watered every day. That's 365 minutes a year and roughly six hours of maintenance. 12 hours of work a year. Times 40 years, times the hourly wage. Makes at least 7,5K dollar in manual labor.
Put it in a 500 dollar pot and take insecticides, fungicides, wire, tools, garden space and soil into account, for 40 years, and you're close to 10K in expenses. It doesn't even have to be a good or pretty tree, it's just what kind of money goes into a tree that old.

Some nursery trees have been in a pot for decades and sell for 20 bucks. But that's regular nurseries, not bonsai. Still, I think it's a steal when you consider how much labor went into keeping a potted tree alive for so long.

I agree with the rest that it depends a whole lot on what people ask for it and what people are willing to spend.

The thing with bonsai prices is they are not linearly connected with the labor and materials put into the bonsai. That tree might have flaws that decrease its value dramatically or the practitioner might have made mistakes, or nature might have done damage to the tree and then there is how common the specimen might be. A collected tree with unique features and only 2 years of care given might be worth more than that 40-year-old potted tree because it contains unique characteristics. Even a nice tree, like say Ryan Neil's first procumbens, looks quite nice but its value on the market would almost certainly be nowhere near the investment in time and energy he put into it over 27 years.

Then there is the artist factor of course. Like in fine art, value often because associated with cultural factors related to the artist rather than pure skill/time for instance. or the provenance of the tree. The famous tree that survived Hiroshima could be considered priceless for its unique provenance in a way that an equally developed random tree would not be.

I personally don't think that ficus is worth anywhere near 16,000, but that's just me.

 

[Zach Smith]

I'd say that the one thing we never want to see happen is for all of bonsai to become "industrialized" - obviously here I'm not talking about the industrial "mallsai" business which of course has been around a long, long time. The growing/collecting and developing of nice material is a real joy to those of us who do it, and seeing trees go to caring and enthusiastic individuals is part of that joy. It pays for my pastime, which is a fringe benefit, and chips in a little for the upkeep of the grandkids. At the end of the day, though there's work involved if it ever becomes drudgery for money then it's just not worth continuing. And I'm willing to bet that most bonsai professionals would agree with my assessment, regardless of what strata they occupy.

So the pricing part of bonsai is largely an aesthetic undertaking, hard to reduce to a formula. That doesn't mean you don't have to consider costs of acquisition and upkeep, it's just not the whole enchilada.

 

[james]

The reality is you may find its more efficient to just randomly hand out money to people you don't know because you'll save time losing the same amount of money.

Totally hilarious! Well said

 

[leatherback]

I personally don't think that ficus is worth anywhere near 16,000, but that's just me.

Nope, you are not alone

 

[shinmai]

It is a crap shoot. eBay is a fickle market and bonsai enthusiasts are a fickle bunch. I post stuff on eBay from time to time at penny start and no reserve. It sells for whatever price it brings. The more time and/or money you have invested in those items the bigger the risk. It can be gratifying or downright insulting, and anything in between. I have a couple of pots on eBay right now that have been sitting a $.01 and they may end there. Its a fair chase hunt for those looking for pots. Want one?

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The thing with bonsai is you do it because you enjoy it. If you make it a job you probably won't enjoy it. Consider the value of your time. If you think the revenue you receive from the tree sale is the compensation for your time, then you may be disappointed. But if the value you receive is really in the joy of hunting and collecting material, then the revenue is just juice from the meat. If you do it for the money, then be honest and keep track of your time and money invested and compare that with your sales. By the time you prepare for your trip, drive to your site, dig, wrap and haul trees, do root prep and pot them up, water, fertilize and nurture them until established and healthy, you will have a lot of time invested. Even at minimum wage you will need to be very good with selection and collection to earn a positive return on that investment. If you sell on line, then add in the time to prepare, photograph, list and sell, plus the time and materials to properly pack and ship. The reality is you may find its more efficient to just randomly hand out money to people you don't know because you'll save time losing the same amount of money.

I seem to recall a comic who said he was never going to get married again. Instead, he said he was going to find a woman who hated him, buy her a house, and give her a suitcase full of cash, because it would be quicker and less painful.