Princess Persimmon

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So it's routine practice to relocate fruit to a more aesthetically pleasing location?

The male form gives better fine branching & ramification?

Why not then combine both forms? Transfer fruit from the coarser female to the finer male?

Or am I being daft?

That's what I was thinking. A typical case of 'why not?' rather than 'why?'
Maybe male trees don't grow nice trunks?
 

Paulpash

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I have never grown princess persimmon so I am looking to other more experienced folk to explain why.
 

JudyB

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Well, transferring the trees own fruit to balance the tree seems like a fair thing to do. Putting a different trees fruit onto a tree seems like cheating, maybe that is why it's not done. I could frankenstein up a great tree out of all different parts, but would it be right?
 

bwaynef

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They do need winter protection. They can take a hard freeze but not subjected to constant frigid temps. I'd say best to keep them just above freezing to be safe.

There's a bonsai nursery in upstate SC that has Princess Persimmons (that are LOADED with persimmons this year, to the point that they're bending over) and he leaves them unprotected on the ground. Granted, upstate SC may not get "constant frigid temps" but its 26°F this morning and it gets significantly colder every few years for a week or two.
 

Paulpash

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Well, transferring the trees own fruit to balance the tree seems like a fair thing to do. Putting a different trees fruit onto a tree seems like cheating, maybe that is why it's not done. I could frankenstein up a great tree out of all different parts, but would it be right?

But isn't cutting off fruit & tieing it on somewhere else with fishing line (even if it is on the same tree) still cheating? I guess it's akin to grafting a nicer flowering specimen onto less desirable understock?
 

MACH5

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But isn't cutting off fruit & tieing it on somewhere else with fishing line (even if it is on the same tree) still cheating? I guess it's akin to grafting a nicer flowering specimen onto less desirable understock?


Marie, I suppose this may depend of who you ask. For me it is not. I believe certain manipulations are needed in order to present a tree in its best light. You can even argue perhaps that wiring is cheating? Bonsai is an art, and like any other, it is a series of man made manipulations to achieve a certain effect or tell a story through a living thing. Nothing is more artificial and "unnatural" as bonsai itself. Ironically, one of the hardest things to achieve in bonsai, is a tree that looks well.... like a tree. It is thus that we employ a series of artificial techniques to achieve an image that's beautiful and natural.

Moving fruits around is something often practiced in Japan. They will even paint large scars meticulously so that it blends perfectly with the rest of the bark. So within reason, I think a lot of these tricks are, or should be, acceptable in my opinion. Tanuki (although not for me) is another way of "cheating". If well done and fools the eye I'd say why not?
 

JudyB

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But isn't cutting off fruit & tieing it on somewhere else with fishing line (even if it is on the same tree) still cheating? I guess it's akin to grafting a nicer flowering specimen onto less desirable understock?
For me it's sort of an invisible line, moving fruits that the tree itself produced would be acceptable. Moving fruits from another or putting prosthetics of any sort, like fake roots, or branches would be something that I personally would not be doing. But if there are no "rules" and it's a competition, your competitors will be doing the most they can do, so you sort of have to avail yourself to the accepted practices if you want to play.... ;)
 

Potawatomi13

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For me it's sort of an invisible line, moving fruits that the tree itself produced would be acceptable. Moving fruits from another or putting prosthetics of any sort, like fake roots, or branches would be something that I personally would not be doing. But if there are no "rules" and it's a competition, your competitors will be doing the most they can do, so you sort of have to avail yourself to the accepted practices if you want to play.... ;)

Seems like cheating. Little different than moving from tree to tree. Should be illegal in contests just as grafting foreign foliage on different tree should be:rolleyes:.
 

sorce

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Seems like cheating. Little different than moving from tree to tree. Should be illegal in contests just as grafting foreign foliage on different tree should be:rolleyes:.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who sees that line......
Way back there!

We always do the dog show analogy....
So my Mutt has this here poodle hair glued on.....

Pretty lame!

Sorce
 

Bonsai Nut

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does this happen all the time? even before fruiting or does fruiting cause branches to thicken?

I'm not 100% certain, because it takes a number of years before seedlings will fruit, and prior to that I think both sexes look quite similar. I can't say I have ever really noted how a branch on a female tree looks when it doesn't bear fruit that year, compared to another branch that bears fruit.
 

Leo in N E Illinois

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Whether moving fruit from the same tree around is cheating or is allowed, is entirely up to the show chairperson, show rules committee and the judges for the particular show the tree is being entered in. At home, you can do whatever you want. Personally I would not move fruit around, but that is my taste. When planning to exhibit a tree, read the show rules before preparing the tree for exhibition. There are rules about what pots can be used, moss, no moss, size categories can change, items per display, with or without scrolls, tanuki yes, tanuki no, etc. Each show will have it's own unique set if rules. There are conventions, but each show venue can have unique rules.
 

Bonsai Nut

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Personally I would not move fruit around, but that is my taste.

I also would not move fruit... however I have never shown one of these. If I was going to show it, and it had only a single fruit, and on the way to the show I knocked the fruit off... I might be tempted to reattach it if the rules allowed. But I wouldn't move it to another spot on the tree. Personal opinion but that is part of the challenge of bonsai :) That's why I don't do tanukis, or glue jins or deadwood on my trees :)
 

barrosinc

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I really like the blue pot! It seems a bit large for the tree or do these need oversized pots so they don't dry out?
 

MACH5

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I really like the blue pot! It seems a bit large for the tree or do these need oversized pots so they don't dry out?


Generally, fruiting/flowering trees like to be in slightly oversized pots. They appreciate the extra room.
 
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