Procumbens...(nana)..maintenance before & after

MichaelS

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The tree before the work. Grew really strongly over summer and put on quite a mass. Time for a clean up and rewire. With such a light trunk it needs to be light on foliage as well. probably 50% came off!

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The back..

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Right side...

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The most tedious job is removing the old brown needles one by one with tweezers.

These are the first 2 branches cleaned trimmed and wired. (about 2 hours!)

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MichaelS

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After about 8 hours, the whole tree is done. Am I happy with it? Not really. I have toyed with removing the lower branches for a few years but still not sure. Opinions please!
The shari will be continued up the trunk when the wire comes off. Maybe some more jin to reduce it further....Tilt it, straighten it up? who knows! Reduce the height?
The original drum pot was smashed, this one is a temp.

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Some closer views... I wired up the tips this time to stop it extending out further. From now on I would like to train the twigs along the branch to point/grow upward.

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sorce

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Nice!

Those first 2 right branches are kind of a dilemma.

The big one surely draws your eye after the shari and drops it off into nothing.
Maybe an accent plant will bring you back through?

A couple more years beef up top should allow for them to be cut off. The top is just not "mass" heavy enough to take them out of the visual...horticulturally, it may help to remove them.

The angle the base sits in the soil looks perfect to me....I wouldn't change the angle...
It looks real natural.

Sorce
 

sorce

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Annul Toepassin?

Sounds like what happens after you eat someone's foot.

I love your language!

Bitterballen. ....
Describes an ex wife who took half of 5 million and wants more.

Sorce
 
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Maybe I did eat someones foot :cool:o_O

But not after recht maken!

Annul. is an abbreviation of annuleren, which means to cancel, and toepassen means to apply.

I love bitterballen, they are great. It's true!
Bitterballen over ex wives any day!
 

MichaelS

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Thanks all for the replys, I will consider them all. @Djtommy, Yes I want to do that however because the crown is basically one heavy branch with lots of little branches coming from it, lowering and rounding out the top will require a heavy cut and a re-start with a small branch lower down. I don't mind doing that but I think I will wait a while. It is still hot here. It definitely looks better your way.
This tree was originally designed by a Japanese master as a demo. (20 years ago) Back them it had 5 more main branches than it has now. Including the lowest jin on the left.
DJTommy, you might be able to answer this? In Japan, how do they treat procumbens? That is, how often do they repot and do they feed heavier than shimpaku? Do they finger pinch?
 

Adair M

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I like DJTommy's virt. You could bring it down even lower, but DJ's vision works for me. I rather like the lower right branch.

Don't pinch the tips of procumbens. If you do, the whole little twig will eventually die. If you need to thin an area, cut off the entire little twig where it joins the larger branch.

Unless you're going to be putting it in a show, I wouldn't wire the tips up. Doing so shades the branch structure. You stated your goal was to keep foliage from extending too long. So, the way to do that is to encourage back budding. These back bud in the crotches of branches, if the crotch gets sufficient sunlight. So, you have to have sunlight in there, which means the pads shouldn't be deep.

Lots of folks make the mistake of pinching away the new growth in the crotches. Then they complain their tree won't back bud! Lol!!! It did, they just didn't like where it did. So, you have to keep some of those new shoots in the crotch, then eventually when it gets strong enough, cut back the old branch and work with the new.

Nice tree, looks like you've done well with it!
 

MichaelS

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Don't pinch the tips of procumbens. If you do, the whole little twig will eventually die.
That is true BUT! if the tree is vigorous, I have noticed that pinching back all the tips greatly stimulate back budding in the crotches as you mentioned and also at the base of the pinched branch. When they are strong enough the dead pinched part (actually they don't really die for many months) can be cut off leaving the healthy shoots. These are usually rather congested and need thinning a lot! I guess this is something you could do every few years. Pruning whole small branches does not seem to work so well for me because the ones remaining are still a bit too long and there is nothing further back to cut to. In other words, I don't get as much back budding as with pinching ALL the shoot tips. I wired up the tips with this technique in mind. We will see....
 

CamdenJim

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After about 8 hours, the whole tree is done. Am I happy with it? Not really. I have toyed with removing the lower branches for a few years but still not sure. Opinions please!
View attachment 132184
I know I shouldn't say this, but the devil made me do it. This made me think of Audrey 2 in Little Shop of Horrors. "feed me, Seymour!" It's just the angle of view, but all I see now is a big green open mouth.
I would lose the lower branch in a heart-beat.
Just my opinion.Audrey2.jpg
 

Adair M

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That is true BUT! if the tree is vigorous, I have noticed that pinching back all the tips greatly stimulate back budding in the crotches as you mentioned and also at the base of the pinched branch. When they are strong enough the dead pinched part (actually they don't really die for many months) can be cut off leaving the healthy shoots. These are usually rather congested and need thinning a lot! I guess this is something you could do every few years. Pruning whole small branches does not seem to work so well for me because the ones remaining are still a bit too long and there is nothing further back to cut to. In other words, I don't get as much back budding as with pinching ALL the shoot tips. I wired up the tips with this technique in mind. We will see....
Well... you asked how they do them in Japan, so I told you.

Pinching all the tips can weaken the tree. The growing tips produce auxin. Auxin is the hormone that stimulates root growth. If you remove the auxin, the roots don't grow as vigorously, and the tree could weaken.

If you thin as I described, you still get backbudding at the base of the remaining shoots, and you still get good root growth.
 

Djtommy

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Thanks all for the replys, I will consider them all. @Djtommy, Yes I want to do that however because the crown is basically one heavy branch with lots of little branches coming from it, lowering and rounding out the top will require a heavy cut and a re-start with a small branch lower down. I don't mind doing that but I think I will wait a while. It is still hot here. It definitely looks better your way.
This tree was originally designed by a Japanese master as a demo. (20 years ago) Back them it had 5 more main branches than it has now. Including the lowest jin on the left.
DJTommy, you might be able to answer this? In Japan, how do they treat procumbens? That is, how often do they repot and do they feed heavier than shimpaku? Do they finger pinch?
I don't see many procumbens here at least I don't think so, mostly itoigawa, kishu, some other.
But I'm pretty sure they threat them all in same way. they generally cut back with scissors though at same time I sometimes see them removing something by hand while having the scissors in the hand. I was told cutting back is better tough and that's what usually been done here.
 
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