Procumbens shaping help

[mikejungle]

Noob here.

Can you guys help me decide which way to take this tree?

I would prefer for it to grow more upwards, or if it were to sweep, sweep at a non acute angle.
I also don't want to do something the tree doesn't wasn't to, but this one looks like an awkward cascade to me right now.

Any general shaping suggestions, as well as which sections to prune would be welcome! I've kind of just let it do its thing for the past 2 years.

 

[WNC Bonsai]

So what you have is a small bush with a big cascade branch dominating it. Now you could use that to your advantage by using the long cascade as a sacrifice branch to help grow the main plant and trunk bigger, faster. Once it gains some girth and the crown fills in then you can cut back the cascade branch and regrow as much of it as you want. If you have space in your yard put it in the ground and let it grow bigger. If you don’t have room then put it in a pond basket or plastic collander and let it grow. This all assumes you are wanting a bigger plant instead of a shohin or mame.

 

[mikejungle]

Right now, I can't see the tree for the trees, I guess. I would love for that main branch to be a sacrifice branch, but there doesn't seem to be a suitable successor for it.

If I throw it in the ground, will it sprout one? Or will one of these tiny branches look more branchy? I'm probably moving in a few months, so I can't put it in the ground, but I'm willing to out it in a bigger pot.

 

[legobonsaipianoman]

Well, I have a tree that started just like this. It is the one in my profile pic actually. You could grow it as a cascade or do what I did and cut the droopy part off. Another option would be to wire the droopy section up.

 

[mikejungle]

Hey lego bonsai, can you tell me more? Or do you have a write up?
There are maybe 2-5 branches that I can keep on the main trunk, if I decide to cut off the main trunk.

My biggest questions are, if I do cut off the main trunk/branch:
1. How do I ensure that the tree survives? There IS foliage, but there isn't a TON. Like I said, maybe just 2-5 branches worth.
2. How do I prune a new branch to become the new trunk OR how do I ensure the branch/trunk that I cut off grows upwards? I can't cut off the main branch before it makes the angle change, otherwise I'm fairly certain it will just die.

I can share more pics if it would help. Thanks for all y'all's help so far

 

[Shibui]

You can certainly cut off the long trunk. The smaller ones down lower will just start growing once the main trunk is gone.
Bonsai is a waiting game. You can't make an instant bonsai unless you have the material already grown. When you start off with a young stick you can only make a young stick bonsai or you can leave it to grow for a few years until there is enough branches and trunk to make a realistic bonsai.

Juniper procumbens is a natural ground cover so the main branches will always try to grow out horizontal as it is now. That does not mean you have to leave it that way. In bonsai we manipulate growth to achieve the shapes we want. If you want a more upright trunk just wire that long branch and bend it into a more vertical position. After a few months it will stay that way. Thousands of these are produced every year by winding the main trunk round a stick at the nursery resulting in the abominable S shaped procumbens pre bonsai. The problem with that is there is little taper in the trunk so they still look very young. It takes quite a few years for the trunks to thicken and look really impressive. If you decide to wire the trunk upward try to avoid the lazy S shape. Try for some sharper bends and some a little closer together to get a random look for the new trunk.

So much depends on what you want to achieve with this tree.
If you are happy with a small green pompom you should chop the long branch off now.
If you would be happy with a taller, skinny upright juniper you should wire the trunk appropriately.
If you want an impressive juniper bonsai you should plant this one in a large pot or in the garden and just feed and water it for 5-10 years then reconsider the bonsai potential. Or you could invest in some more mature stock that has enough size and character to produce a more immediate bonsai.

 

[miker]

Your tree looks like it has potential for a nice cascade style bonsai.

 

[HENDO]

I think @Cofga and @Shibui nailed it.

Here's a couple of examples for you, hopefully good illustrations of two of @Shibui options listed above. Both of these purchased late 2091 and looked like yours, both of them planted in the ground, both dug up this month.

Tree A was wired up before planting in the ground, Tree B kept it's long "prostrate" cascade which I just chopped off before rock planting.

You can probably guess which one I'm selling/giving-away and which one I plan on keeping/developing. Interesting how they were planted in the exact same conditions but Tree A stayed very skinny.

Tree A:



Tree B:

 

[mikejungle]

You can certainly cut off the long trunk. The smaller ones down lower will just start growing once the main trunk is gone.
Bonsai is a waiting game. You can't make an instant bonsai unless you have the material already grown. When you start off with a young stick you can only make a young stick bonsai or you can leave it to grow for a few years until there is enough branches and trunk to make a realistic bonsai.

Juniper procumbens is a natural ground cover so the main branches will always try to grow out horizontal as it is now. That does not mean you have to leave it that way. In bonsai we manipulate growth to achieve the shapes we want. If you want a more upright trunk just wire that long branch and bend it into a more vertical position. After a few months it will stay that way. Thousands of these are produced every year by winding the main trunk round a stick at the nursery resulting in the abominable S shaped procumbens pre bonsai. The problem with that is there is little taper in the trunk so they still look very young. It takes quite a few years for the trunks to thicken and look really impressive. If you decide to wire the trunk upward try to avoid the lazy S shape. Try for some sharper bends and some a little closer together to get a random look for the new trunk.

So much depends on what you want to achieve with this tree.
If you are happy with a small green pompom you should chop the long branch off now.
If you would be happy with a taller, skinny upright juniper you should wire the trunk appropriately.
If you want an impressive juniper bonsai you should plant this one in a large pot or in the garden and just feed and water it for 5-10 years then reconsider the bonsai potential. Or you could invest in some more mature stock that has enough size and character to produce a more immediate bonsai.

Thanks a lot for the reply.
I think for this one, it sounds like repotting in a large pot come springtime is my best course of action, and in the meantime, I might get some nursery stock (maybe chinese juniper if it's easy to find?) to scratch that bonsai itch.

But can you explain why the S curve is dreaded? And I'm having a hard time envisioning what you're saying by "sharper bends", so if you wouldn't mind showing me what you mean?
If I were to try to answer my own question, I would think it's because it seems a little direction-less and un-natural feeling?

And can I completely straighten my 60 degree bent juniper with wiring? So I can force it a bit upright as it grows in its big pot?

 

[Shibui]

But can you explain why the S curve is dreaded?

Possibly just because they are mass produced and all look alike but there is also something more appealing about something that looks as if it was sculpted by nature with random shapes. The story behind the tree then becomes far more fascinating as we ponder the forces that caused a tree to grow like that somewhere in the mountains.

I can't find many good examples but hopefully others will add some more photos of real, wild looking junipers.

Junipers are often trees of the high mountains where they grow in exposed locations, often in poor, rocky soils so parts of wild junipers die and regrow each year depending on snow and storms. They end up with highly contorted trunks and branches and often have dead wood as the remains of branches or trunks that have died.
You can see that I have tried for some quite tight bends and different spacing between the bends and curves in the trunks.

Your tree is yours to develop. If you don't like the look of this style you have the right and ability to make a more symmetrical, flowing trunk like the one @HENDO posted above.
You will have no problem bending a juniper 60 degrees while it is still young and thin like yours but you might like to keep the first 60 deg bend and add another bend or even a couple of bends above it to bring the apex upright. make sure you have 3D bends, not just sideways. Bonsai is a 3D subject so depth is just as important as width.

 

[sorce]

Welcome to Crazy! Missed you in 2018, I think because I can't stand the word "bristle".

Sorce

 

[Thomas J.]

Here's one of my wild looking procumbens.

 

[mikejungle]

Hey, nice trunk!
Mine needs a little more girth...

 

[Crazy Diamond]

Here's one of my wild looking procumbens.

View attachment 355526

All mature scale foliage? how you get it?

 

[PA_Penjing]

Here's one of my wild looking procumbens.

View attachment 355526

I've read like 25 times that procumbens won't ever get scale foliage. I don't know why I even bother reading about trees haha