Progression of my first Shimpaku shohin

parhamr

Omono
Messages
1,725
Reaction score
5,962
Location
Portland, OR
USDA Zone
8
Aha! It appears heat killed some roots and the tree sacrificed its less productive foliage.

Some living roots visible on the edge of the rootball:
AD232438-29F6-409C-ABA1-B5E3898607A4.jpeg

The westward side of the pot received the late afternoon sun, which killed many roots:
4E7B7A71-E2D9-4039-BB9F-ABDEC5A9E335.jpeg
 

River's Edge

Masterpiece
Messages
4,142
Reaction score
10,445
Location
Vancouver Island, British Columbia
USDA Zone
8b
Hi Reid
I wonder if the heat was the issue or extra water retention. Terra Cotta can hold a fair amount of moisture along with the media. The tips you show in the picture could be spider mite damage as well.
Just not sure of the heat theory as terra Cotta is very good for insulation value when damp and the pot shows good amount of algae on the outside surface.
Wondering how you deduced the heat damage? Knowing how you approach things i am sure you have some other observations or research.
Overall the plant looks like it is in fantastic condition.
 
Messages
207
Reaction score
249
Location
California
USDA Zone
9A
He used to sell these for $100 each. I think now they’re $120 to $150. The younger ones are less, obviously. He will ship. If anyone is interested:
Www.plantcitybonsai.com

I can't find any pre-bonsai material for sale on his online marketplace. I sent an email. Are you familiar with his mail order procedures? It looks like an amazing nursery.

Thanks.
 

Adair M

Pinus Envy
Messages
14,403
Reaction score
34,227
Location
NEGeorgia
USDA Zone
7a
I can't find any pre-bonsai material for sale on his online marketplace. I sent an email. Are you familiar with his mail order procedures? It looks like an amazing nursery.

Thanks.
It’s a mom and pop nursery. It’s better to call him on the phone, ask about what they have, and he’ll send pictures. They will ship.
 

Adair M

Pinus Envy
Messages
14,403
Reaction score
34,227
Location
NEGeorgia
USDA Zone
7a
It’s a mom and pop nursery. It’s better to call him on the phone, ask about what they have, and he’ll send pictures. They will ship.
Except, I see you’re in California. California has really strict rules on bringing in plants from out of state. So, it’s probably not going to happen.

Believe me, California has better material! He goes to California to buy stuff to have as inventory to sell!
 

Paulpash

Omono
Messages
1,994
Reaction score
5,764
Location
UK. Yorkshire
Well, Gremel lives in California, and he has all kinds of stuff growing. That said, I don’t think he sells raw stock anymore, he gives them a bit of styling for a couple years and sells them for big bucks! He’s at the big shows. I saw him st the Redwood Empire Show in August, and his styled shimpaku like mine had prices of $1200 to $1500!

My local bonsai shop had a grower in Florida who would start about 200 Procumbens for him every year. And he would buy the ones the grower started 30 years ago! So every year, he’d Get a fresh shipment of a couple hundred 30 year old Procumbens. It’s been his “stock in trade” for years. The grower has decided to retire, so all the stock has been shipped to Plant City forThe Sea of Junipers.

He used to sell these for $100 each. I think now they’re $120 to $150. The younger ones are less, obviously. He will ship. If anyone is interested:
Www.plantcitybonsai.com

Tell ‘em that Adair sent ya!
Hey, look who's running the Jim Gremel workshop. If you ask me he looks a bit shifty lol ;)

I know at the time you posted this link you wouldn't have been on the front page @Adair M but it's funny you appeared now!
 

Adair M

Pinus Envy
Messages
14,403
Reaction score
34,227
Location
NEGeorgia
USDA Zone
7a
Hey, look who's running the Jim Gremel workshop. If you ask me he looks a bit shifty lol ;)

I know at the time you posted this link you wouldn't have been on the front page @Adair M but it's funny you appeared now!
I teach workshops at a Plant City Bonsai three or four times a year. Mainly JBP technique. My repotting classe I teach in the spring are real popular. I do one for conifers, and I DO teach how to do HBRs. And I teach a deciduous repotting class, where I teach people how to completely bare root their trees.
 

parhamr

Omono
Messages
1,725
Reaction score
5,962
Location
Portland, OR
USDA Zone
8
Hi Reid
I wonder if the heat was the issue or extra water retention. Terra Cotta can hold a fair amount of moisture along with the media. The tips you show in the picture could be spider mite damage as well.
Just not sure of the heat theory as terra Cotta is very good for insulation value when damp and the pot shows good amount of algae on the outside surface.
Wondering how you deduced the heat damage? Knowing how you approach things i am sure you have some other observations or research.
Overall the plant looks like it is in fantastic condition.

Interesting! I could be wrong about it all.

I did suspect too much water could have been a problem — does that also cause foliage tip death on junipers?? The media could be holding a lot of water in the muck from years in this pot with granular organic fertilizer.

Spider mites were a minor issue in my yard this year, but I believe I had them knocked down before the tip death was seen… though the death could have come from earlier mite damage.

I was thinking this was heat related because this tree sits on the westward edge of my sunniest bench. It was receiving a full 16 hours of sun at the peak of summer. Since I work 9–5 and regularly came home to dry soil, I figured the tree had been consuming all the water in the soil during the days. This is a thick terra cotta pot, though.

Whew! Many options… all of them plausible. It’ll be in a different pot next year… so we shall see :)
 
Last edited:

River's Edge

Masterpiece
Messages
4,142
Reaction score
10,445
Location
Vancouver Island, British Columbia
USDA Zone
8b
Interesting! I could be wrong about it all.

I did suspect too much water could have been a problem — does that also cause foliage tip death on junipers?? The media could be holding a lot of water in the muck from years in this pot with granular organic fertilizer.

Spider mites were a minor issue in my yard this year, but I believe I had them knocked down before the tip death was seen… though the death could have come from earlier mite damage.

I was thinking this was heat related because this tree sits on the westward edge of my sunniest bench. It was receiving a full 16 hours of sun at the peak of summer. Since I work 9–5 and regularly came home to dry soil, I figured the tree had been consuming all the water in the soil during the days. This is a thick terra cotta pot, though.

Whew! Many options… all of them plausible. It’ll be in a different pot next year… so we shall see :)
I would suspect water issues and/or mites prior to heat issues in that type of pot. Particularily in combination with the apparrent soil mix. The good thing is that the plant is in great condition and with all that foliage will just take off given a fresh start.
I have noted from your posts that your nursery is making great progress! Have you run out of room yet? This year i have begun to look for ways to spread out the growing stock beyond the previous boundaries of my nursery. For some reason larger plants with bigger containers seem to take more space and room between them. LOL
I would like to have attended the fall event in portland again this year but could not make the trip with previous teaching commitments. I am sure it was a great success and lots of fun for the participants.
 
Last edited:

Dav4

Drop Branch Murphy
Messages
12,277
Reaction score
25,766
Location
SE MI- Bonsai'd for 12 years both MA and N GA
USDA Zone
6a
Fwiw, that looks like a very healthy tree and I wouldn't be overly concerned at this point. Make sure it's not mites for sure but I think your good going forward with any plans you have here. I do wonder if the soil might be a bit moisture retentive in that pot... I've had issues with JBP staying too wet in terra cotta over my GA winters.
 

parhamr

Omono
Messages
1,725
Reaction score
5,962
Location
Portland, OR
USDA Zone
8
your nursery is making great progress! Have you run out of room yet?
Ha! Long ago 😎

This yard has such better sun and airflow than my previous one. The plants have responded well, in turn.

I would like to have attended the fall event in portland again this year but could not make the trip with previous teaching commitments. I am sure it was a great success and lots of fun for the participants.
Well, dang! It was great fun. We are hoping to make a return to our formal Spring Show format… so stay tuned.
 

River's Edge

Masterpiece
Messages
4,142
Reaction score
10,445
Location
Vancouver Island, British Columbia
USDA Zone
8b
Ha! Long ago 😎

This yard has such better sun and airflow than my previous one. The plants have responded well, in turn.


Well, dang! It was great fun. We are hoping to make a return to our formal Spring Show format… so stay tuned.
Thought you might be interested in some modifications i made to improve the drainage and usefulness of the terra cotta pots for Bonsai.
I find it hard to source excellent growing size containers for a variety of trees. One option i have found useful is the following:
Deroma brand ( higher fired) Azalea style size 27 . Made in Italy, my cost in bulk approx $8 CAD.
The modifications i make are for wiring in the tree and improving drainage. Four extra holes and four cuts in the bottom rim to allow air and water to move if the pot is placed on a bench or hard surface. Two pictures, one for the overall shape ( almost as wide as tall) and the other to show the mods. The black arrows were just added to point out the cuts on the bottom rim. I use a simple masonry cut off wheel to make the cuts. The extra holes with small diamond dust circular hole saw bit in my drill. Cheaper set from Harbor freight.
 

Attachments

  • IMG_0283.JPG
    IMG_0283.JPG
    23.4 KB · Views: 45
  • IMG_0282.JPG
    IMG_0282.JPG
    21.4 KB · Views: 53

parhamr

Omono
Messages
1,725
Reaction score
5,962
Location
Portland, OR
USDA Zone
8
This is its first repot in… four years? The current state: (2.25" diameter at its widest)
9298C59C-A098-4B1D-B9CF-FE935FAFAEA0.jpeg

Before:
3CCCBEAA-11D3-4918-A481-8A435F8D181D.jpeg

The root ball after reduction by just over 50 percent: (it was looking great! Lots of healthy white tips and thin, fibrous roots)
A309547A-4079-48C6-A4A1-26940118090C.jpeg

Approximate position change:
E18095BA-BF41-4CF7-B69C-F69F264A7EB0.jpeg

This Vicki Chamberlain pot won the first round of pot selection: (before I decided to spare that pot for some yamadori)
F6BD41C4-9027-4794-BED6-B9092A2367FA.jpeg

And finally, here was the colander selection. It’s about identical in dimensions to the pot and the colander will provide the aggressive growth I still want at this phase. The root ball will also definitely be reduced even more at the next repotting.
9679DC37-66A2-4052-9760-2053FAF8B206.jpeg
 

parhamr

Omono
Messages
1,725
Reaction score
5,962
Location
Portland, OR
USDA Zone
8
The lower left branch/trunk is still sacrificial. I’ve reduced its length and foliage mass to weaken it before future removal. Here’s one of several escape branches I removed:
 

Attachments

  • A723D22D-E389-44A3-9E0C-C0C1FA290B07.jpeg
    A723D22D-E389-44A3-9E0C-C0C1FA290B07.jpeg
    263.5 KB · Views: 31

Adair M

Pinus Envy
Messages
14,403
Reaction score
34,227
Location
NEGeorgia
USDA Zone
7a
This is its first repot in… four years? The current state: (2.25" diameter at its widest)
View attachment 284830

Before:
View attachment 284825

The root ball after reduction by just over 50 percent: (it was looking great! Lots of healthy white tips and thin, fibrous roots)
View attachment 284829

Approximate position change:
View attachment 284826

This Vicki Chamberlain pot won the first round of pot selection: (before I decided to spare that pot for some yamadori)
View attachment 284827

And finally, here was the colander selection. It’s about identical in dimensions to the pot and the colander will provide the aggressive growth I still want at this phase. The root ball will also definitely be reduced even more at the next repotting.
View attachment 284828
Just so you know, there’s really no benefit to growing junipers in colanders.

They don’t use them in Japan. They’ve been doing bonsai there for a LONG time. If they thought it was a better method, they’d use them.

The colander thing was a way to get Shohin pines to keep small root balls to go into Shohin pots.
 

mrcasey

Mame
Messages
213
Reaction score
117
Location
WV
USDA Zone
6
Just so you know, there’s really no benefit to growing junipers in colanders.

They don’t use them in Japan. They’ve been doing bonsai there for a LONG time. If they thought it was a better method, they’d use them.

The colander thing was a way to get Shohin pines to keep small root balls to go into Shohin pots.



In his latest free shohin juniper video, Bjorn Bjorholm specifically states that the juniper he's working on "should have been
up potted into a slightly larger colander or net pot or air pot...". Obviously, Bjorn might not fully understand where the value of colanders lies, but maybe more experimentation is in order?

p.s. Sorry about the hijack, parhamr.
 

sorce

Nonsense Rascal
Messages
32,550
Reaction score
44,643
Location
Berwyn, Il
USDA Zone
6.2
In his latest free shohin juniper video, Bjorn Bjorholm specifically states that the juniper he's working on "should have been
up potted into a slightly larger colander or net pot or air pot...". Obviously, Bjorn might not fully understand where the value of colanders lies, but maybe more experimentation is in order?

p.s. Sorry about the hijack, parhamr.

I'm not saying I was thinking about this very scenario when I was listening for him to say anything about something dissimilar to a colander when it didn't happen, it just didn't happen.

Sorce
 

parhamr

Omono
Messages
1,725
Reaction score
5,962
Location
Portland, OR
USDA Zone
8
I stopped by a bonsai friend’s house today and worked on trees while chatting. I got a “before” pic after removing the sacrifice branch and doing a teeny bit of cleanup of interior growths:
1E3B8E2A-8234-41E0-914D-F62D038938A8.jpeg

Here’s the view after most of the work — this is close to my preferred angle and position (I guess it’s becoming a semi-cascade??)
01FBFBD1-348F-429A-BF43-E9A09ADF6B19.jpeg

And then here’s how I left it today (at dusk) with the canopy work just started:
66CE039E-F7DE-4605-9788-064F96A8F54C.jpeg

The layout of the branching is working pretty well when seen in the round. Today I was able to remove a lot of coarse growth to make for nice taper and transition.

There’s more to do!
 
Top Bottom