Progression: RMJ Bolt

[IzzyG]

I'm linking the video that Bjorn made discussing the RMJ's journey prior to coming into my care. I'll give a cliff notes version since the the tree's time just prior to coming to Wisconsin impacted what has happened thus far.

-collected originally by Back Country Bonsai in 2015
-picked up by Bjorn for his new nursery in 2016
-initially styled in Dec 2017
-heavily pruned for Nationals in 2021
-scion grafted in early 2022
-all scions(2 out of 30 made it) failed through 2022 growing season
-restyled in early fall of 2022 before I picked it up

Prepared tree for Nationals in 2021:


Restyled in early fall of 2022:




Arrival in Wisconsin:


After about a month of being in Wisconsin, I started seeing a couple of branches losing strength on the backside of the tree. I believe there was a bunch of factors that led to this(heavy pruning pre Nationals, failed grafts, restyling back-to-back) but nonetheless a decent sized branch that made up the body on the back side was lost(it was a branch that held 3-4 secondary branches that created the pads on the back side). I kept the branch over the winter just to stay optimistic but finally removed it this Spring. Fortunately, I was able to readjust a couple of branches to make up for the loss.


Weakening back branch:





One of the obvious issues that I also noticed when I picked the tree up was the lack of stability of the tree in the container. The base is actually pretty narrow and the manner in which it's anchored creates a sway on the entire tree when moved(you can see it move if there's a heavy wind too). The rather large piece of deadwood does not help this instability either so a plan to repot the tree was made in the winter(assuming it does well over winter) and I sought out a replacement container. My goal was three fold; reanchor and stabilize the tree in the pot, push the modern aesthetic of the tree(angular characteristics of the deadwood) even further and create the illusion of a stronger base(the current smaller container weakens the base imo). I played with a couple of ideas but ultimately decided on a Johnathan Cross container(photoshop to scale below)



However, as spring came into Wisconsin, I made the decision to remove that branch in the back side and questioned whether repotting would be appropriate or whether to wait a year to let the tree recover the crazy 2021-2022 years it had. Ryan(Neil) and Todd(Schlafer) had visited over winter/early spring for some work and I shared my concern. They both agreed that waiting another year wouldn't be a bad idea. Since it's really an up-pot in size, there wouldn't be any root work so we could also chance it. As the universe had it, the decision was made for me when the Johnathan Cross arrived damaged last week.

Damaged Johnathan Cross container:



So recovery 2023 is now the plan and the RMJ has actually been showing robust growth throughout the whole foliage this early Spring. I'm hopeful of a strong growing season before a 2024 repot, then allow to recover and possibly a secondary styling in 2025. I'll keep updating this thread as it progresses throughout the year. The weather's been dreary this last week or I'd have an updated photo for y'all(I'll add one this next week as the weather is supposed to turn).

 

[justBonsai]

Would you consider graft attempting it again?

Personal thoughts on rmj.

1) There are definitely preferred micro-climates where rmj grows hardier with healthier and more compact foliage. I am based in LA county, rmj here can grow healthy but its finicky and the slightest mishap or lack of vigor results in floppy, juvenile, and weak growth. I don't know your climate area enough, but I would say first is to evaluate how healthy you can cultivate rmj foliage there.

2) A way sometimes to evaluate very old bonsai is age in cultivation. This is not necessarily the physical age of the tree, but the number of years successfully cultivated as bonsai. Having apprenticed in Japan, and getting many opportunities to see old trees the difference in person is night and day between a tree with just a good aesthetic and one old as bonsai. The idea is that say (arbitrarily) for a 20 year window, you want work over that time period to appreciate and be built upon previous work. But if your tree requires major reworking every few years, health related, or by nature of growth habit even if you work on your tree for 20 years its age in cultivation will forever be 3 years old. Case in point, there is no maturity of the design since 2021 and if anything as you already mentioned had set backs related to health.

Rmj naturally is a very lacy, floppy foliage. It is not very turgid and is a slow process to develop structure on, especially if the tree is always being styled with very weak skinny branches. Short of a very clean design and great health, more often than not rmj require major reworking every few years which resets the age in cultivation calendar as opposed to building upon previous work. I am sure Bjorn understands this, which is why he chose to graft the tree.

Success rate of your scions will relate to health of understock (the rmj) and then your donor (scion, chinensis). I've observed the same issue where an rmj I took over from a local professional was graft attempted and had the majority of them fail. Issue was that the tree was just not strong enough. It took me a full year to rebuild strength to a state of vigor (from an almost dead tree) and I grafted this year--seems like all will take.

I did watch Bjorn's video before and he wrote off the failed attempts as a more poetic sign of retaining the native foliage. But my personal feelings are that bonsai is already so far removed from its natural state that unless the native foliage is very impactfully conveying a certain aesthetic while being cultivatable for bonsai trying to keep it for the sake of a natural look feels hypocritical. Its people who assign aesthetic and feelings to nature, while in the natural environment trees are only concerned with survival and the easiest accessible way to grow.

I believe there is a fine line between representation in nature and then cultivating the human element on our trees. Just as yamadori accrues age and character in nature from harsh environment and slow growth rates, in a sense we can impose our own history of time on the tree. Trees that successfully carry this, in part with the natural character, are usually shoe in show winners are major exhibitions.

I think situationally native foliage can look great, but I think this is not one of those cases and if you can grow the tree to a state of great health then graft it, this tree will have a brighter future as bonsai.

 

[Colorado]

Awesome tree. I am glad you made a progression thread for it - looking forward to following!

 

[IzzyG]

Would you consider graft attempting it again?

Personal thoughts on rmj.

1) There are definitely preferred micro-climates where rmj grows hardier with healthier and more compact foliage. I am based in LA county, rmj here can grow healthy but its finicky and the slightest mishap or lack of vigor results in floppy, juvenile, and weak growth. I don't know your climate area enough, but I would say first is to evaluate how healthy you can cultivate rmj foliage there.

2) A way sometimes to evaluate very old bonsai is age in cultivation. This is not necessarily the physical age of the tree, but the number of years successfully cultivated as bonsai. Having apprenticed in Japan, and getting many opportunities to see old trees the difference in person is night and day between a tree with just a good aesthetic and one old as bonsai. The idea is that say (arbitrarily) for a 20 year window, you want work over that time period to appreciate and be built upon previous work. But if your tree requires major reworking every few years, health related, or by nature of growth habit even if you work on your tree for 20 years its age in cultivation will forever be 3 years old. Case in point, there is no maturity of the design since 2021 and if anything as you already mentioned had set backs related to health.

Rmj naturally is a very lacy, floppy foliage. It is not very turgid and is a slow process to develop structure on, especially if the tree is always being styled with very weak skinny branches. Short of a very clean design and great health, more often than not rmj require major reworking every few years which resets the age in cultivation calendar as opposed to building upon previous work. I am sure Bjorn understands this, which is why he chose to graft the tree.

Success rate of your scions will relate to health of understock (the rmj) and then your donor (scion, chinensis). I've observed the same issue where an rmj I took over from a local professional was graft attempted and had the majority of them fail. Issue was that the tree was just not strong enough. It took me a full year to rebuild strength to a state of vigor (from an almost dead tree) and I grafted this year--seems like all will take.

I did watch Bjorn's video before and he wrote off the failed attempts as a more poetic sign of retaining the native foliage. But my personal feelings are that bonsai is already so far removed from its natural state that unless the native foliage is very impactfully conveying a certain aesthetic while being cultivatable for bonsai trying to keep it for the sake of a natural look feels hypocritical. Its people who assign aesthetic and feelings to nature, while in the natural environment trees are only concerned with survival and the easiest accessible way to grow.

I believe there is a fine line between representation in nature and then cultivating the human element on our trees. Just as yamadori accrues age and character in nature from harsh environment and slow growth rates, in a sense we can impose our own history of time on the tree. Trees that successfully carry this, in part with the natural character, are usually shoe in show winners are major exhibitions.
Would you consider graft attempting it again?

Personal thoughts on rmj.

1) There are definitely preferred micro-climates where rmj grows hardier with healthier and more compact foliage. I am based in LA county, rmj here can grow healthy but its finicky and the slightest mishap or lack of vigor results in floppy, juvenile, and weak growth. I don't know your climate area enough, but I would say first is to evaluate how healthy you can cultivate rmj foliage there.

2) A way sometimes to evaluate very old bonsai is age in cultivation. This is not necessarily the physical age of the tree, but the number of years successfully cultivated as bonsai. Having apprenticed in Japan, and getting many opportunities to see old trees the difference in person is night and day between a tree with just a good aesthetic and one old as bonsai. The idea is that say (arbitrarily) for a 20 year window, you want work over that time period to appreciate and be built upon previous work. But if your tree requires major reworking every few years, health related, or by nature of growth habit even if you work on your tree for 20 years its age in cultivation will forever be 3 years old. Case in point, there is no maturity of the design since 2021 and if anything as you already mentioned had set backs related to health.

Rmj naturally is a very lacy, floppy foliage. It is not very turgid and is a slow process to develop structure on, especially if the tree is always being styled with very weak skinny branches. Short of a very clean design and great health, more often than not rmj require major reworking every few years which resets the age in cultivation calendar as opposed to building upon previous work. I am sure Bjorn understands this, which is why he chose to graft the tree.

Success rate of your scions will relate to health of understock (the rmj) and then your donor (scion, chinensis). I've observed the same issue where an rmj I took over from a local professional was graft attempted and had the majority of them fail. Issue was that the tree was just not strong enough. It took me a full year to rebuild strength to a state of vigor (from an almost dead tree) and I grafted this year--seems like all will take.

I did watch Bjorn's video before and he wrote off the failed attempts as a more poetic sign of retaining the native foliage. But my personal feelings are that bonsai is already so far removed from its natural state that unless the native foliage is very impactfully conveying a certain aesthetic while being cultivatable for bonsai trying to keep it for the sake of a natural look feels hypocritical. Its people who assign aesthetic and feelings to nature, while in the natural environment trees are only concerned with survival and the easiest accessible way to grow.

I believe there is a fine line between representation in nature and then cultivating the human element on our trees. Just as yamadori accrues age and character in nature from harsh environment and slow growth rates, in a sense we can impose our own history of time on the tree. Trees that successfully carry this, in part with the natural character, are usually shoe in show winners are major exhibitions.

I think situationally native foliage can look great, but I think this is not one of those cases and if you can grow the tree to a state of great health then graft it, this tree will have a brighter future as bonsai.

Thank you for the thoughts! I do think we share similar opinions and I do agree with most points made. The climate here seems to be advantageous for RMJs based on local RMJ examples and the two growing seasons I’ve seen. The humid summers lends itself well to them while still giving the winter dormancy they need.

I’m actually a fan of RMJ foliage, if given time like you had mentioned. While I’m not against all grafts, I do want to give this RMJ’s native foliage a chance. I’m in agreement with you regarding the failed grafting being due to a weakened tree. The heavy pruning done for nationals is still apparent today(majority, if not all of the foliage is still juvenile). Let’s see how she goes the next year or so!

 

[Perplexody]

its such a shame that pot didnt make it, it was so strong and heavy. im so excited to see what it ends up going into. maybe something made of concrete if another incident happens. i believe there are quite a few nuts on here that make really incredible concrete pots

 

[Shogun610]

I personally prefer the pot the tree is currently in , the curvature of the tree and the delicate foliage are accentuated in the gray Tokoname pot , whereas the heavy angle of the other pot you displayed and intended for it , distracts me.

 

[justBonsai]

Thank you for the thoughts! I do think we share similar opinions and I do agree with most points made. The climate here seems to be advantageous for RMJs based on local RMJ examples and the two growing seasons I’ve seen. The humid summers lends itself well to them while still giving the winter dormancy they need.

I’m actually a fan of RMJ foliage, if given time like you had mentioned. While I’m not against all grafts, I do want to give this RMJ’s native foliage a chance. I’m in agreement with you regarding the failed grafting being due to a weakened tree. The heavy pruning done for nationals is still apparent today(majority, if not all of the foliage is still juvenile). Let’s see how she goes the next year or so!

Yeah! Give it a try and see how it develops in your area. One of the "retired" professionals in my area, John Wang, had many nice rmj's that be bought from Randy Knight and would develop for customers. There were a lot of amazing trees, unfortunately they just did not seem to age well with the native foliage. At best you'd get a few years of consecutive refinement, then some health related set back would happen, and instant floppy and leggyness.

If you can tame it and grow it healthy, it can look decent. There are 2 varieties of "good" rmj. A compact blue variety, similar to "wichita blue" in the nursery trade. An a more greenish one that is itoigawa like, but coarser. I can't tell what type is on Bjorn's tree, but hopefully when it reverts to mature you will have an idea of the quality.

I chose not to fight the fight with rmj and stick to a foliage type that is reliable and will age well. I use either "fudo" a blue chinesis or itoigawas on all rmjs now. The high desert varieties are more turgid, like california juniper, and I think they can look good on larger trees. Trade off is that foliage is often coarser then say rmj.

 

[Wood]

majority, if not all of the foliage is still juvenile

I was chatting with Bjorn about this tree at one of my intensive sessions. He said that this particular foliage reverts to juvenile whenever you look at it wrong, so he chose to go with it and keep the foliage juvenile for a more consistent look. Good luck with it

 

[IzzyG]

I was chatting with Bjorn about this tree at one of my intensive sessions. He said that this particular foliage reverts to juvenile whenever you look at it wrong, so he chose to go with it and keep the foliage juvenile for a more consistent look. Good luck with it

He did mention that I might want to maintain juvenile foliage by consistent cutbacks on the tree. That might be the eventual option but I do want to give it time to recover and decide based upon what the tree gives me.

 

[Wood]

Totally fair. Giving this tree a recovery season or two only prepares it more for either repotting/styling or a second scion graft attempt

 

[LeatherTree23]

Duuuuuuuuuuude this tree is NOICE! And it sounds like you’ve got the right support systems/skills/abilities to get it where it needs to go. Watching with my popcorn and rooting for you.

 

[chicago1980]

He did mention that I might want to maintain juvenile foliage by consistent cutbacks on the tree. That might be the eventual option but I do want to give it time to recover and decide based upon what the tree gives me.

I support giving the tree more time to adjust to Wisconsin. No need to rush the tree and it’s response to your area.

I enjoy RMJ.

 

[LuZiKui]

Beautiful tree, looking forward to seeing the progression of this beauty.

And a huge bummer on that pot! I love those J Cross pots and it sucks to see one broken. Also I didn't realize the size of it until you took the photo with your hand to show scale.

Just curious, is there anything you can do with the pot or is it a goner? Could you do kintsugi to repair it???

 

[IzzyG]

Beautiful tree, looking forward to seeing the progression of this beauty.

And a huge bummer on that pot! I love those J Cross pots and it sucks to see one broken. Also I didn't realize the size of it until you took the photo with your hand to show scale.

Just curious, is there anything you can do with the pot or is it a goner? Could you do kintsugi to repair it???

I've actually been in correspondence with Josh(from Mirai) regarding the claims and options. Insurance confirmed yesterday that it's fully covered and therefore I have a couple options on what to do with the container; full refund and have first crack at Johnathan Cross's next batch of containers, or a partial refund if I decide to keep it. Ryan is actually visiting in July and so offered to repair it then. He's pretty confident that he can get it repaired to the point where it'll be seamless. So as of now, I had opted to have Ryan attempt the repair in July and then make a decision then. Seeing as how it's the most prominent high point on the front that broke off, the repair would definitely need to be discernible.

The container is definitely a hefty one! It's about 55lbs in weight so lugging that composition will be fun

 

[Perplexody]

it's about 55lbs in weight so lugging that composition will be fun

A pot so heavy almost makes sense that it broke in shipping. One little tumble and the weight alone crushed itself

 

[IzzyG]

A pot so heavy almost makes sense that it broke in shipping. One little tumble and the weight alone crushed itself

There was definitely that concern and so freight shipping on a pallet was the initial choice. However, there were delays that led to a change(to 2 day air instead) and so handling by the shipping company was the unknown. Looking at the box however, Todd and I believed something heavy fell on top of the box and caught the pointy edge that broke. There were tell tale signs of creases which hinted at that anyways.

 

[Perplexody]

There was definitely that concern and so freight shipping on a pallet was the initial choice. However, there were delays that led to a change(to 2 day air instead) and so handling by the shipping company was the unknown. Looking at the box however, Todd and I believed something heavy fell on top of the box and caught the pointy edge that broke. There were tell tale signs of creases which hinted at that anyways.

Such a shame even though clearly it's all getting sorted with repairs/refunds

 

[Maiden69]

I loved this tree from the first day that Bjorn started posting about it. I really liked the way the deadwood looked, but as you state here, my main concern with it was the ability to anchor the tree effectively on a pot. One thing I thought may work, and I stole this from @MACH5 on the way he reattached the stone on his kiyohime with a stainless rod. Is there a way you could add a stainless rod into the deadwood from the bottom where it touches the ground? Bending it at an angle and then welded into a small platform that could touch the bottom of the container and be attached directly into it? Almost the same way that Ryan has done several rock plantings, where he attaches the stone directly into the pot with some sort of buffer, ie. rubber or bamboo pieces? That way the tree will be stable with the pot.

 

[IzzyG]

I loved this tree from the first day that Bjorn started posting about it. I really liked the way the deadwood looked, but as you state here, my main concern with it was the ability to anchor the tree effectively on a pot. One thing I thought may work, and I stole this from @MACH5 on the way he reattached the stone on his kiyohime with a stainless rod. Is there a way you could add a stainless rod into the deadwood from the bottom where it touches the ground? Bending it at an angle and then welded into a small platform that could touch the bottom of the container and be attached directly into it? Almost the same way that Ryan has done several rock plantings, where he attaches the stone directly into the pot with some sort of buffer, ie. rubber or bamboo pieces? That way the tree will be stable with the pot.

View attachment 487823


View attachment 487826

That was pretty much the plan if we had repotted this spring actually! Yea that seems the most stable way to anchor it. Another reason for the J-cross was the jaggedness of the lip which allows more opportunity to hide the anchoring contraption!

 

[Wood]

The container is definitely a hefty one! It's about 55lbs in weight

Are J Cross pots always that hefty for their size? I like the style of some of his pots, but that feels absurd, then you've got to add the weight of the tree, soil, and water