Promote back budding arakawa

Matte91

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Hello.

Is there some technique to promote back budding? In this case on a arakawa maple.

Perhaps put a clear plastic bag on the tree to increase humidity and heat?

For a couple of days ago I took a chance and pruned my maple hard. Note that the leaf on the picture was there before I pruned. So i haven't seen any new growth yet.

Thank you in advance.
 

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rockm

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Should be noted that Arakawa may not backbud on corky bark. Buds can't push through the cork. It's a quirk many don't know about. I have a large mature Arakawa planted in my backyard. It's completely "barked up" from the base out to secondary branching. This winter a heavy snow snapped the leader out of the tree. The limb was dominant and about two inches in diameter, had full cork bark covering. There was NO backbudding AT ALL back down the branch. In a Japanese maple without the cork bark, there would have been extensive backbudding behind the break. THe tree DOES backbud at the ends of branches on portions less than two years old that haven't developed cork barck.

And no-- scraping off the bark in hopes of freeing buds is probably isn't going to help. It's a crap shoot, even if there are resting buds underneath the bark scraping down to get them will probably destroy most...

It is what it is
 

Kanorin

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Hello.

Is there some technique to promote back budding? In this case on a arakawa maple.

Perhaps put a clear plastic bag on the tree to increase humidity and heat?

For a couple of days ago I took a chance and pruned my maple hard. Note that the leaf on the picture was there before I pruned. So i haven't seen any new growth yet.

Thank you in advance.
Even on a non-cork bark maple it can take 1-3 weeks for new buds to form/develop. Note that this was a quite stressful operation you carried out on the tree in the middle of summer. No matter if you get 1 bud or 12, you'll need to let this tree recover at least until next spring after this operation.
 

Matte91

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I know that arakawa not back bud easily. Why do you think I wrote, that I took a chance?

Please read my question again. This thread are about to move away from the main subject.
 
D

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Back budding can be a crap shoot regarding where the buds will form or of they will even form at all.

you’re better off growing out shoots that you can use to thread graft exactly where you want back budding. The thread grafting technique is well documented online.
 

Matte91

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Still not answerering the question....
 

leatherback

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Hello.

Is there some technique to promote back budding? In this case on a arakawa maple.

Perhaps put a clear plastic bag on the tree to increase humidity and heat?

For a couple of days ago I took a chance and pruned my maple hard. Note that the leaf on the picture was there before I pruned. So i haven't seen any new growth yet.

Thank you in advance.
the technique it to get it healthy, heavily fertilized and defoliate/tip prune mid spring.

Considering you have pruned, now you have to wait. It takes weeks, not days for buds to develop in places where they are not visible.
 

rockm

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I know that arakawa not back bud easily. Why do you think I wrote, that I took a chance?

Please read my question again. This thread are about to move away from the main subject.
I have no idea why you wrote what you wrote. You might have explained in more detail that you know arakawa was problematic...

No, don't know of any techniques that will promote. A longer wait is probably the best thing at this point... your question was probably best asked BEFORE you hard pruned
 

Rivian

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I would try the humidity thing you suggested yourself. Reminds me of the hawthorne technique
Presumably moist bark is easier to break through
 

discusmike

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I had mine back bud down low on the trunk on corky bark, but it was just luck, because I can never get buds on corky bark when trying, graft would be your best option, grow some cuttings to use, that’s my plan
 

Ming dynasty

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Hello.

Is there some technique to promote back budding? In this case on a arakawa maple.

Perhaps put a clear plastic bag on the tree to increase humidity and heat?

For a couple of days ago I took a chance and pruned my maple hard. Note that the leaf on the picture was there before I pruned. So i haven't seen any new growth yet.

Thank you in advance.
When is too late to apply wire to bend trunk? Or when is the recommended time(trees age) to do so?
 

Ming dynasty

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probably better to ask this in your own thread as this is not related to the current thread. Wire as soon as you can.
My bad. I struggle with that decision. Idk to post my own post sometime Bc people will say this been talked about in other post. So I bounce back and forth
 

Leo in N E Illinois

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My bad. I struggle with that decision. Idk to post my own post sometime Bc people will say this been talked about in other post. So I bounce back and forth

If you don't see the topic you want within 2 months of scrolling backwards through the forum, don't worry about someone criticizing about a topic having been talked about. This is a pretty supportive crowd. In fact I don't ever remember any of the "old timers" being critical. I do know myself and others have posted links to older threads where helpful. But that was only in an attempt to be helpful, not to criticize.

So when an older conversation gets posted or linked into a new one, it's not a slam, it's a help, and saves "the effert to re-type the wheel ". To mix a metaphor
 

Ming dynasty

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If you don't see the topic you want within 2 months of scrolling backwards through the forum, don't worry about someone criticizing about a topic having been talked about. This is a pretty supportive crowd. In fact I don't ever remember any of the "old timers" being critical. I do know myself and others have posted links to older threads where helpful. But that was only in an attempt to be helpful, not to criticize.

So when an older conversation gets posted or linked into a new one, it's not a slam, it's a help, and saves "the effert to re-type the wheel ". To mix a metaphor
Got ya, thank you for this
 

Bonsai Nut

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Is there some technique to promote back budding? In this case on a arakawa maple.
The best way to promote back-budding is to get the tree as strong as possible, and then prune it back hard and/or defoliate it (making sure to remove the apical buds when you do so).

The horticulture behind it is that you are upsetting the balance of hormones in the tree. When you let a tree grow strong, with strong roots and strong foliage, you have elevated levels of growth hormones in the tree (in this case we are concerned with auxin from the apical buds and cytokinin from the roots). However the hormones are in balance - ie the tree is being signaled to grow foliage mass strongly and grow roots strongly. When you defoliate a tree and remove all the apical buds, or when you prune it back hard, you are upsetting that hormonal balance by removing the majority of auxin generation in the tree. If you read my article on air-layers you will know that auxins trigger root growth while suppressing axillary bud growth... and when you remove them (while maintaining elevated cytokinin levels) you are suddenly triggering a huge push in axillary bud growth. This works best if the tree is strong to begin with. The more root mass you have to start with, the higher your cytokinin levels will be, and the stronger the bud growth response when you prune back hard.

As far as I know, mechanical tools like plastic bags, etc don't do anything to promote bud growth.

One related topic about getting buds to grow where there are no buds to begin with is to scarify the tree. If you create a scar in an otherwise empty stretch of bark, the tree will respond with callous growth to close the wound. Callous growth is indiscriminate cell growth which may ultimately develop into buds, which is why you often get budding at the perimeter of large pruning scars / trunk chops.
 
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sorce

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Nah, the only bad thing about it someone may have to read it! Oh the pain!

Perhaps that bump of the thread caused the best answer to come? Perhaps the conversation leads to more information that leads to more information that leads to the truth.

@Matte91 you already performed the action required!

Grab a beer!

Sorce
 

Bonsai Nut

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Very quickly - I was specifically responding to the OP's question about back-budding on Japanese maples. While the same general principles apply to deciduous trees and conifers, the way you apply those rules to conifers is very different. I state this because I don't want people reading this thread to dive in and start defoliating their pines :)
 
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