Protective Fungicide Spraying in Spring

Nybonsai12

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Every year i battle some sort of fungal infection. I want to start my season off right by spraying everything with copper for protective measure. My question is how soon does one spray and does that timing vary from tree to tree?

Deciduous should be sprayed as soon as they are in leaf or sooner? I don't want to harm anything either.
And pines I assume can be sprayed immediately, no?

Thanks in advance folks.
 
Good question. I havent had alot of fungal issues, but I too would like to know this.

One thing I would do NY, is cover the soil with a sheet of plastic or a bag before spraying.
 
Oh heck yea. I cover the soil with aluminum foil. Can't imagine what my neighbors think. first i make a hat out of tin foil and put it on. Then i cover all the soil surfaces with tin foil. Then i spray with my backpack sprayer. then i dance around all of them to pray to the fungus gods to leave me alone.

I've fought apple cedar rust, even got the dreaded jellies once. My white pines stay healthy, but black pines get a touch of needle cast. A few maples got some sort of powdery mildew last year. And then bugwise i got scale on one or two trees. But it ain't gonna happen this year!!
 
Yea, I always have some scale and/or adelgids. One spray usually takes care of them.

Have fun with the tin foil hat dance...lol
The important thing isnt what your neighbors think, it is what your wife thinks. Who knows, might be a turn on.
 
Oh heck yea. I cover the soil with aluminum foil. Can't imagine what my neighbors think. first i make a hat out of tin foil and put it on. Then i cover all the soil surfaces with tin foil. Then i spray with my backpack sprayer. then i dance around all of them to pray to the fungus gods to leave me alone.

I've fought apple cedar rust, even got the dreaded jellies once. My white pines stay healthy, but black pines get a touch of needle cast. A few maples got some sort of powdery mildew last year. And then bugwise i got scale on one or two trees. But it ain't gonna happen this year!!
What do you mean by this?
I collected an eastern red cedar last summer and it lived happily here in till this spring. It never broke dormancy and died. I left it on my porch and one day I come out to see the trunk COVERED in this grotesque orange jelly slime like stuff. I put it in a trashbag right away and threw it away. I was horrified!
 
It sounds like your tree had Apple Cedar Rust, it produces funny looking orange jelly things. Hit up google images for pics. It's nasty, but your tree wasn't dead. It's treated with copper fungicide. Only problem is it jumps from one host to another rather easily.
 
I will be spraying my Crabapples, Elms and Maples this coming weekend. It is mostly preventative as I had some minor problems at the old house. I wait until the leaf is just budding and showing life for the first treatment.

Grimmy
 
I watched a video that a scientist made about mycorrizal fungi the other day. In it he mentions that he would never use any type of fungicide on anything. He stated that fungicides can easily cause damage to humans. Also he stated that not only are you killing the bad stuff, but also the good stuff. He stated that 95% of all plants on earth depend on mycorrhizal fungi to some extent, largely the retainage of water and provision of phosphate. Take care when you spray that stuff. I had no idea that it was that toxic to humans. He said that even having it absorbed through skin could be dangerous. What about hydrogen peroxide instead?
 
I watched a video that a scientist made about mycorrizal fungi the other day. In it he mentions that he would never use any type of fungicide on anything. He stated that fungicides can easily cause damage to humans. Also he stated that not only are you killing the bad stuff, but also the good stuff. He stated that 95% of all plants on earth depend on mycorrhizal fungi to some extent, largely the retainage of water and provision of phosphate. Take care when you spray that stuff. I had no idea that it was that toxic to humans. He said that even having it absorbed through skin could be dangerous. What about hydrogen peroxide instead?

Drew,
was the video you were watching in regard to bonsai? I'm curious if the scientist is stating the harm to beneficial fungi is a result of the treatment getting into the soil? In that case I could understand, but topical applications where nothing is getting into the soil i'm not sure I follow how it could negatively impact the good fungi.

I've used copper before without negative impact, but we always must be careful when using such a substance.
 
It was something along those lines NYB.

The main places where it came out just had slightly swollen bark, not those weird structures. The jelly definently looked like it though.
 
Drew,
was the video you were watching in regard to bonsai? I'm curious if the scientist is stating the harm to beneficial fungi is a result of the treatment getting into the soil? In that case I could understand, but topical applications where nothing is getting into the soil i'm not sure I follow how it could negatively impact the good fungi.

I've used copper before without negative impact, but we always must be careful when using such a substance.
Yes you are correct. He was speaking about lawn treatment of fungus, so I would think he would be talking about the soil. Although he did state that the beneficial fungi attach themselves to the roots, with sort-of roots of their own. They pull some sugars from the tree and in return provide the tree with moisture and phosphorous and other trace minerals. If copper is systemic I would assume it may have an effect on the fungi, but I am not a scientist. Great point.
 
I sprayed with a fungicide and miticide once in early winter, again in late winter before leafing out, and again when everything leafed out, and again 3 wks later. Then 2 wks after that I start to see shot hole fungus on my one of my Ume.... just the beginnings thankfully. So I sprayed with copper just on the Prunus. I wasn't this proactive last year and played catch up with mites on pretty much all the deciduous and shot hole fungus on my all of my Prunus. This year it's SO nice to see fully formed new growth on my Punica, Cedrus, Chaenomeles, and Stewartia instead of that stunted anemic growth from the mites. It's also SO nice to see my cherries and plums with normal green leaves instead of yellow hole-filled leaves that fall off every few weeks.
I hate to spray but I'm glad I can do it. I just use the most selective miticide I can (would never use a systemic general insecticide) and the minimum needed...
Ian
 
I am really interested in this thread. It opens up a LOT of questions and answers as well as moral and personal issues. "If" you are a responsible person and wisely use safety measures applying ANY chemical or supplement you do not have to risk your health and/or your property and nature itself. It is a simple matter of using "safe practice" and not overuse... This to me is and has been a "Common Sense" issue with most all in the journey of Bonsai. Many are put off by my use of Systemic/Miticide chemicals as well as more "natural" antifungal applications like Copper Fungicide. These chemicals are all of a nature that if you "bother" to research properly will allow you to enjoy your experience without harm. Read, Research, and make proper decisions. Above all - make certain you keep yourself safe while applying and enjoy the results which could never be attained otherwise. Pretty simple sheot for complex people... Just my 2 pennies :rolleyes:

Grimmy
 
I am really interested in this thread. It opens up a LOT of questions and answers as well as moral and personal issues. "If" you are a responsible person and wisely use safety measures applying ANY chemical or supplement you do not have to risk your health and/or your property and nature itself. It is a simple matter of using "safe practice" and not overuse... This to me is and has been a "Common Sense" issue with most all in the journey of Bonsai. Many are put off by my use of Systemic/Miticide chemicals as well as more "natural" antifungal applications like Copper Fungicide. These chemicals are all of a nature that if you "bother" to research properly will allow you to enjoy your experience without harm. Read, Research, and make proper decisions. Above all - make certain you keep yourself safe while applying and enjoy the results which could never be attained otherwise. Pretty simple sheot for complex people... Just my 2 pennies :rolleyes:

Grimmy
That is correct. Researching and correct application can be the best way to ensure your safety. I am always scared to use certain chemicals because I feel like they might kill my trees and hard work so in essence I may not use enough of them to be useful. Luckily I haven't had too many issues with diseases or pest ( a HUGE knock on wood following).
 
Last summer/fall I noticed some pea sized nodules on a few of my junipers. Every time I saw one, I picked it off. I missed a few apparently because I just started finding slightly larger ones with orange lines starting on them. I am pretty sure these are the Cedar-Apple rust. I will be spraying all my junipers with copper this weekend and probably my pines even though they dont get C-A rust. I will be covering the pots with either plastic or aluminum foil (thought this was a good idea too) so the spray stays out of the bonsai soil.

As far as ethics regarding pesticide use. I use them when I need them or as a preventative in this case and with fall treatments of neem oil. I follow the instructions on the bottle. I have just spent too much time, effort and money on my trees to not do what I can to prevent problems and losing them to worry about a little fungicide falling on the dirt below my deck that my trees sit on.
 
I'm a big believer in dormant spraying. I think it's one of the easiest and most effective treatments you can do all year. Not only does it set back bugs and fungi in the spring, it also reduces the need for spraying with harsh chemicals throughout the growing season.

There are two classes of dormant chemicals in common application. They are both very useful, but have quite different purposes and the timing of application is important. The first class of dormant sprays are dormant oils that are specifically for insect control. The second class are dormant season fungicides such as lime sulfur that are primarily for disease control.

Dormant oil spraying is one of the most effective insect management tools we use to control overwintering insect populations. These are essentially highly refined petroleum products that are formulated to spray on trees and shrubs. The term "dormant" refers to the timing of application - they need to be used while the tree is dormant and before bud break in the late winter to early spring. Also, if the temperatures are too high or below freezing the application may not be effective - a 24 hour period of temperatures in the 40s and 50s is ideal. There are three types of insects that may be controlled with dormant oil: scale, mites, and aphids. Even if you don't see any insects, they are there and waiting for spring when they will make their presence known. Dormant oils work by coating the insect and blocking the spiracles (a small opening used for breathing). Some plants can be damaged by these oils so make sure to read the list carefully on the label. It should be applied as a fine mist, so buy a good quality sprayer and coat the entire tree including the trunk. Pay particular attention to thick barked trees as insects like to hide in the bark during the dormant season. You'll want to coat all of the nooks and crannies.

Lime sulfur spray is used to control fungal and bacterial diseases such as leaf curl, fire blight, scab, and anthracnose. The time to control such diseases is in the early spring when the buds are swelling as fungi come out of dormancy at the same time the plants do. If you spray too early in the season, the spores will still be dormant and the lime sulfur will not be effective. When applying both a dormant oil and a fungicide, you want to be careful about the timing of when you spray. There needs to be a space of about four weeks between the time you apply a dormant oil to control insects and the time you apply a fungicide for disease control. Here in Houston, our winters are only about 6-8 weeks long, and that doesn't allow much time for dawdling. I usually apply a dormant oil in about middle January and apply lime sulfur when buds begin to swell between late February and early March. If the buds have already opened its too late as the fungus will have already entered the bud and the dormant spray will be quite ineffective at that point. As with dormant oil, you'll want to thoroughly coat the tree, getting in all of the nooks and crannies.

Reducing the overwintering population of pests and and diseases during the dormant season, means that you'll have far fewer problems in spring you'll need to try and control. That means healthier trees and less spraying of dangerous pesticides and fungicides during the growing season - a good thing - and a far lower impact on the beneficial insects we'd like to encourage in our garden. Remember that these are still chemicals, so use the appropriate protective gear for application and read the label thoroughly. But, by all means, use those early spring days to get a head start on spring pests and diseases.

Scott
 
Scott. Good information. What is the name of the dormant spray you refer to in your post? Is there a particular brand you favor or commonly use?
Dormant oil spraying is one of the most effective insect management tools we use to control overwintering insect populations.
 
This is what I use, but it's not a product endorsement. I have never done any testing. As always, read the labels carefully and use proper precautions when spraying. Do not exceed the concentration limits and avoid spraying the species listed on the label.

For insects I use:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001BO4YU6/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

For disease I use:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005XOP8DW/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

You can find all-in-one products too, but you can't time them according to the notes I listed above, so I don't know anything about their effectiveness. I avoid those.

But dormant spraying with these has significantly reduced the problems I've had in the spring and the need to spray with harsh chemicals during the growing season.

Here's a reference video which repeats a lot of the info above.


Scott
 
Thanks. I totally understand.
I've used this product, Pyrethrin, successfully on insect control. One year I had a Scale invasion and Aphids. Mostly on Zelkovas and Hackberries. This quickly took care of both. I liked it because it was a natural botanical base.
image.jpg image.jpg
 
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