Pruning early pre-bonsai

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I have started these three trees from plug seedlings (yes I know this is the slow way, I have some larger things too). I'm aiming for some shohin sized trees eventually. This is the end of my first summer with them and they have grown a lot! Which is great, but I'm not sure how much to prune at this point. Their isn't a lot of guidance on development at this stage.

As far as I can tell the concerns I'm trying to balance are:

1. Leave as much foliage as possible to get as much trunk growth as possible.
2. Do some level of selective pruning that will encourage taper, avoid whorls and reverse taper, and start selecting primary branches.

Any advice?

 

[BrightsideB]

I start developing saplings and think it is fun. There is something cool to me about a tiny tree looking younger. They are in smaller shohin size pots and mame. But your first question about developing trunk growth quicker means you want to expedite the nebari size so you might as well just let them grow for years without prunning. Cutting will slow the trunk size down. You’ll be amazed at how much faster they grow in the ground as well.

 

[Shibui]

Growth means thickening but can also give chunky, unattractive straight sections so be wary of letting any tree destined for shohin to grow too big too fast.

Many conifers don't back bud well on bare wood so beware of letting conifers grow too big too fast. You really need to maintain at least some live, compact branches down low that you can use to develop the final bonsai after pruning off any sacrifice growth.
If you decide to allow for some rapid growth I'd be selecting some low branches and pruning those to maintain compact parts while allowing one or 2 others to grow long for more rapid thickening.

 

[HorseloverFat]

Growth means thickening but can also give chunky, unattractive straight sections so be wary of letting any tree destined for shohin to grow too big too fast.

Many conifers don't back bud well on bare wood so beware of letting conifers grow too big too fast. You really need to maintain at least some live, compact branches down low that you can use to develop the final bonsai after pruning off any sacrifice growth.
If you decide to allow for some rapid growth I'd be selecting some low branches and pruning those to maintain compact parts while allowing one or 2 others to grow long for more rapid thickening.

Yes! When Growing trees from seed/sapling, it's best if you can time out sacrifices, 2-3 steps ahead (can be even more with conifers)

These look nice... Almost ALL of my NON-COLLECTED stock was started from seeds/saplings/small Cuttings.

 

[PowerTap]

These look nice... Almost ALL of my NON-COLLECTED stock was started from seeds/saplings/small Cuttings

I bought them all from https://sequoiatrees.com/ and have been really pleased with how they have done.

I also got an Oregon Myrtle which is a very non-traditional experiment.

 

[PowerTap]

Many conifers don't back bud well on bare wood so beware of letting conifers grow too big too fast. You really need to maintain at least some live, compact branches down low that you can use to develop the final bonsai after pruning off any sacrifice growth.

Would a good approach be to remove trunk whorls with a preference for branches with secondary branching close to the trunk?

 

[Shibui]

Would a good approach be to remove trunk whorls with a preference for branches with secondary branching close to the trunk?

Definitely. Provided you are working with areas that are likely to remain after the reduction chops. Many beginners seem to think they will be using the entire trunk. I usually just see the lowest branch as the future and everything above that is sacrifice but if in doubt, reduce whorls to a single branch as a safety measure.
Most conifers will bud from base of needles so you may not need actual secondary branching provided you trim early enough to stimulate secondary buds on longer branches with plenty of healthy needles close to the trunk.

Here's a virt from another thread to illustrate 1st branch becomes the bonsai.

 

[PowerTap]

2023 update just to keep myself honest.

Giant Sequoia - Probably needs some branch selection at the low side, I've seen some branches get shaded out. I'm not quite ready to pick a sacrifice branch and chop. I think mostly because I'm nervous and have never done anything that dramatic to my trees.


Coast Redwood - grew like a rocket last year. I've cleaned out some branches and have some low back budding and will chop this next fall/winter.


Sitka Spruce - let it just grow last year, my plan is to let it grow again this year then trim back to new growth after it's hardend off this summer. Probably select a sacrifice this fall.

Maybe this should get wired to try to set branches now, but spruce as I understand it are notoriously springy.


California Bay Laurel / Oregon Myrtal

I changed the soil from APL to a more organic mix to encourage more growth. I really like the trunk line and color. Needs some light wire to pull my primary branch away from the trunk.



Dwarf Alberta Spruce

$10 grocery store Christmas tree got cut back hard last year and is budding out like crazy. It's as ugly as sin right now but I think it has potential, or at least potential to be a continued experiment.

 

[PowerTap]

Definitely. Provided you are working with areas that are likely to remain after the reduction chops. Many beginners seem to think they will be using the entire trunk. I usually just see the lowest branch as the future and everything above that is sacrifice but if in doubt, reduce whorls to a single branch as a safety measure.
Most conifers will bud from base of needles so you may not need actual secondary branching provided you trim early enough to stimulate secondary buds on longer branches with plenty of healthy needles close to the trunk.

Here's a virt from another thread to illustrate 1st branch becomes the bonsai.
View attachment 453635

Is there a best time of year to cut back and establish a sacrifice branch?

Per Jonas Dupuich I think spring / summer is the time to pick a sacrifice branch and reduce the other branches?

 

[Shibui]

I don't 'establish' a sacrifice branch. The tree does that. I just take advantage and pick one that's growing where it will not get in the way of the real tree.
Pruning remaining branches to become your bonsai is probably better late spring/early summer at the normal decandling window because any shoots you get will be smaller which will allow much more flexibility in building the branches and ramification.
Remember you do not need to trim JBP shoots every year to maintain control. Some can be allowed to grow long for 2-3 years then chopped back while they still have older needles near the base. You'll still get good budding down low but the growth will have added thickness to the branches and trunk below.

 

[PowerTap]

I think I'm asking the wrong question. I think I'm trying to figure out how/when to transition from letting these trees grow freely to cutting them back closer to their target height and starting to develop more compact branches, while also letting a sacrifice branch grow out to continue to add size to the trunk.

 

[River's Edge]

I think I'm asking the wrong question. I think I'm trying to figure out how/when to transition from letting these trees grow freely to cutting them back closer to their target height and starting to develop more compact branches, while also letting a sacrifice branch grow out to continue to add size to the trunk.

Consider the thickness of the portion and the taper desired for the next portion. From the ground up you need to know what you desire for thickness and taper within the particular form you are trying to create. Once a portion reaches the desired thickness the sacrifice branch or leader used to create that portion is no longer needed.
Further, it is wise to begin the change earlier as the tree will continue to thicken some with age. A rough guideline is to remove the sacrifice branch or leader when the desired portion is 2/3 the actual thickness desired. This allows for smoothing the transition with additional growth and closing any wounds properly over time.
Another key consideration is to shorten the distances between sections as you progress. It is useful to remember that you can be working on more than one section at a time. A sacrifice branch can continue to thicken a lower area or branch for a while when you are also working to create taper and movement above.
The reality is that you will end up allowing some potions to grow while managing th growth in other areas. It is not one or the other when the progression advances.

 

[PowerTap]

Apologies if I'm dense on this concept, but I have more questions. I've seen more of this in discussion of development of Shohin pine where folks allow one sacrificial leader to get really tall, with no branches or foliage between the leader and nower branches that are preserved for later.

I have a spruce I'm working on growing out, so I don't know if I'm trying to misapply a practice from another species. But I'm trying to learn how to both thicken and preserve branches.

 

[PowerTap]

Update that all of these trees are doing great made it through the summer and will be ready for some work come spring.