Pruning Japanese Holly

Ambobley

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Hi all

Ive had my Japanese Holly for about 4 months now and was given to me with lots of dense growth and leaves. It's been growing lots of new shoots in summer and I've come to pruning.

It's now dropped a lot of its leaves in the past week and has revealed a totally Criss cross of branches underneath.

I'd like advice on
1) if dropping it's leaves is normal or a sign of being unhealthy/dying
2) how to prune and what to prune (please see pictures) given how dense and intertwined the branches are...

Thanks so much!
 

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hinmo24t

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yaupon (sp?) holly? on my list and radar (grows wild here, yaupon)

looks like a watering issue...the new growth is a good sign on it.
maybe time to reduce watering this time of year a bit. once a week
or every 4 days perhaps.

good luck with it - those are cool


neat spider plant too. i have one sitting on my desk at work right now

it gets only florescent light only and watered every 7 to 10 days
 

Ambobley

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website said chinese holly, i've been told yaupon and japanese since, so I'm a bit confused about it to be honest... haha

thanks! any thoughts on the branch structure and if that's too messy/okay?

haha thanks, he's a fighter, been root bound twice before he came to me
 

hinmo24t

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looks like it could be organized more with branching. id be hesitant to do that until the right timing of year or when the foliage doesnt look so wilted or leggy
 

Ambobley

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as in wiring the branches out do you mean? (i am a super noob sorry haha).
 

hinmo24t

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as in wiring the branches out do you mean? (i am a super noob sorry haha).
im not into wiring at all. selective pruning for future branch structure (Nigel Saunders)
look that guy up on youtube sometime, hes fantastic in my opinion
 

Leo in N E Illinois

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@Ambobley - welcome to Bonsai Nut. This is a pretty good forum. Sometimes it takes a while to get someone who knows something about a given species to get around to giving a response.

@hinmo24t - this is NOT a yaupon holly. Yaupon Holly, Ilex vomitoria, is only native to USA. The OP clearly said Chinese or Japanese holly. Some holly are deciduous, some holly are evergreen. There are 480 species of holly distributed through Europe, Asia, North, Central and South America. There are more than 10 species native to North America, and there are over 20 species native to China. Asking which species of Ilex (holly) that the OP has is the most important key to deciding whether the leaves falling are a problem or not.

For a list of the more common holly species see Wikipedia

@Ambobley
Looking at the leaves of your tree, and knowing it comes from China, as you said you were originally told, chances are fair that it is Ilex crenata. There is an outside chance it is Ilex kaushue, or Ilex integra, called Mochi. These 3 species are the most common of the 20+ Chinese species of holly. All three are more or less evergreen. Leaves will live one to two years, and you will tend to get leaf drop, usually in late winter, or spring, with the oldest of the leaves falling. But older leaves can drop anytime.

If only a few of the oldest leaves are dropping, this is not a problem. Oldest leaves are the leaves furthest away from the tips of branches.

Question. Could you fill out your profile, to include roughly what city and what country you live in. This is an international forum, and you can get better advice, specific to your local climate if you include your location in your profile. You can edit your profile by clicking on the Icon in the upper right menu, next to the message icon.

All tree species used for bonsai are "outdoor trees", there are no "true" indoor trees. Most will grow better outdoors. But depending on your location, if it is autumn where you are at it may be too late in the season to put the tree outdoors. If you are in Australia or New Zealand, it is spring and time to put the tree outdoors. Most bonsai are grown outdoors, brought indoors to display briefly, then returned to the outdoors once "company leaves".

I'm going to assume you are in USA. Winter is coming. The 3 possible Chinese Holly species that this tree is, are all from sub-tropical to mild winter temperate climates. Ilex crenata is listed as evergreen, and winter hardy to -15 C, which is +5 F. This is roughly USDA zone 7. However not knowing where it was grown, I would assume it was greenhouse grown and has not been acclimated to falling autumn temperatures. I would keep it indoors for winter, protected from freezing, in the brightest window you have, or in an under lights set up. Besides, I would want to enjoy the ghoul on the swing, hangin in your tree. In winter, glass will be cooler than the air in the room, the cooler air falling down to the windowsill will give your holly its "winter rest" that it needs to set the buds for next year's growth.

So keep your tree bright, don't let the soil get too dry. I would not start pruning or wiring until spring, after the is a strong flush of new growth.

Styling. You have a nice dense amount of branching. This is good. It leaves you a lot of choices for styling. The down side is, this leaves you a lot of choices for styling. I hesitate to offer styling advice from the photos you supplied. In spring, when new growth as begun, take a better series of photos, from all 4 sides, taken with the camera lens on the same plane as the rim of the pot, pulled back far enough to get the whole tree. Then from these photos, you might be able to see the design. And it will be easier for others to offer their advice.

The current design is good. It is styled much as a tree that one would see in a park. It is an "informal upright", that is nice and dense. I would want to keep a fair amount of the density going forward. It is an asset of this tree. You also want to keep a branch to hang the swing from.

But there is no styling that needs to be done now. Focus on keeping it healthy through the winter. In spring you can repot if needed, and style the tree. Read up in the mean time. The most relevant information will be about Ilex crenata bonsai.
 

Ambobley

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Hi @Leo in N E Illinois, first of all, thanks so much for taking the time to reply with all the information, this has been super helpful.

I have just updated my profile, thanks for the tip! I live in the UK with a hardiness zone of 9a, my bonsai is right next to a large bright window with no radiator near so I will keep it inside for winter following your advice.

I agree with you that Ilex Crenata seems like the most likely species. The leaves have stopped falling since i took those photos which is a relief. The only hesitation I have about the styling/maintenance pruning is that the branches near the centre of the tree look so criss crossed and messy. With some very stubby and look already dead. It might be easier to tidy up a bit now when the foliage is thinner to see the structure, what do you think?

Thanks!
 

Forsoothe!

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Yes, all those cris-crossing branches should be eliminated, but that's something that is accomplished early in the design of a tree. I speculate that the tree was created by hedge pruning a landscaping tree without ever editing the interior branches. They created an outside canopy shape without regard to the interior of the tree. That's kind of the opposite of bonsai. In your case, the canopy has a significant percentage of those branches as integral constituents holding foliage at their tips. If you make the tree neat it's going to have many large bare holes in the canopy. You have to dance with the one that brung ya, so sooner or later you have to bite the bullet and chop everything wrong back to the point where new branches can all radiate out from the center of the tree at angles in concert with shape of the canopy, or live with it as is. Doing a big change in architecture a little at a time is a third option that will take a long time and so be painful for a long time. No easy way out.

You need to have a mentor looking over your shoulder to coach you through changing the tree into what you'd rather have. The Bristol Bonsai Society would be a good place to find such a person. Many clubs also have bring-your-own-tree bonsai workshops, and that would be good for you. The virus situation will interfere with that now, but you'd do that kind of work in spring anyway. Join BBS now and when meetings restart, you're good to go!
 

Bonsai Nut

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I'll go take some photos of different hollies and be right back :)

Ilex vomitoria; Yaupon Holly. NC native, though I got this tree from @Si Nguyen in California. He originally obtained it as a landscape plant in Texas.
vomitoria.jpg

Ilex crenata; Japanese Holly. Small rounded leaves. Looks similar to boxwood, but Japanese holly has tiny teeth on the margins of the leaves, while boxwood leaves are smooth.
crenata.jpg

Ilex cornuta; Chinese holly. Much larger leaves than Japanese holly, hard spiky leaves. Apex of leaf is a spike and points downwards. Note that some cultivars do not have the two lateral horns on the leaves that give the species its "cornu" name (or like in this example, they can still be seen on some leaves but they are much less obvious).
cornuta.jpg

Ilex opaca; American Holly. NC native. This is a tree-sized species, and I have several trees on my property that are 40'+
opaca.jpg

Note also that hollies are dioecious - they have separate sexes. Only the female plants bear fruit. When buying landscape plants, they are typically cloned and marked by sex.

Though I don't know for certain - given the large number of holly species, many of which with several cultivars, I would say the OP's tree looks like a Yaupon Holly. Though they are a US native, they are available quite broadly in landscape nurseries, and if we can get English holly here in the US, no reason why Yaupon Holly can't show up in the UK :) One thing's for certain... it doesn't look anything like a Chinese holly - which is what it was sold as :)

Most hollies are evergreen, though some (winterberry, et al) are deciduous. I am going to offer advice as if this was a Yaupon Holly. Adjust if you think it is something else :)
1) if dropping it's leaves is normal or a sign of being unhealthy/dying.
Yaupon holly is evergreen, and will typically drop old, inner growth in the spring when it starts to push new growth after awakening from dormancy. However like many evergreen species, it can often be a function of light intensity. If you take a holly that is used to intense, direct sun, and move it into shade, it will often drop inner leaves, because they aren't getting enough light. The key here is - are you losing inner leaves only... or are you losing leaves all over, or at the tips of branches, or all the leaves on one branch, while the other branches are healthy? If you are losing only inner leaves at this time of year, I would suggest it is a function of light. Where are you keeping your tree?

2) how to prune and what to prune (please see pictures) given how dense and intertwined the branches are...
Yaupon hollies can be quite vigorous, and can even handle complete defoliation, as long as they are healthy and you defoliate in their peak growing season (late spring - early summer). Do not think that just because a holly is still green that it is still actively growing. In the fall and winter it will be a dormant plant, with limited ability to adapt to or recover from pruning. Additionally, hollies can be susceptible to a number of fungal diseases, particularly if they are staying cool and wet, and you prune and open a wound site on the plant. It is best to hold off and prune in the spring, when you can address structural issues, open up the design, and fix root problems/repot.
 
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sorce

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Sorry to miss ya!

Love the Swinging Demon!
Welcome to Crazy!

Sorce
 

Leo in N E Illinois

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@Ambobley - sure, this is a good time of year to do the pruning out of criss crossing branches, and otherwise clean up the design. Since you are in a very mild, zone 9a region of UK, you certainly could grow this holly year round outdoors if it was practical for you. Those of us who live in apartments might not be able to grow outdoors, but if you can grow it outdoors, it will be fully winter hardy in your area.

@Bonsai Nut - the OP clearly said the website of the vendor said that it was "Chinese holly". Ilex crenata is the most common species that can be called "Chinese Holly", why complicate the identity issue by bringing in a USA species. The vendor probably knows where the holly actually came from. So back to it NOT being yaupon holly. Leaves alone are not the only diagnostic for species identity. but of the 20 species of holly native to China, Ilex crenata certainly looks to be a good match.
 

essdoesbonsai

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This is good. It leaves you a lot of choices for styling. The down side is, this leaves you a lot of choices for styling.
Love this 🤣

@Ambobley I live in the UK (West Yorkshire) and have contemplated getting a Ilex Crenata but hesitated for this very reason. I've read loads and concluded that they can be grown in doors, but not without difficulty! Similar to the Zelkova, they thrive much better outdoors, at least in our climate.

I have a Zelkova that was indoors for quite some time but I brought it to my mum's garden 2 weeks ago and it's already shown more growth than in 2 months!

I know they're not the same tree. But I think they like a similar climate.
 

Bonsai Nut

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Ilex crenata is the most common species that can be called "Chinese Holly"

I love you like a brother and respect your bonsai knowledge... but I can't find any reference, anywhere, of Ilex crenata being called anything other than "Japanese holly".

North Carolina State University - Ilex crenata - Japanese Holly
University of Connecticut - College of Agriculture - Ilex crenata - Japanese Holly
Proven Winners - the #1 nursery brand - Ilex crenata - Japanese Holly
Oregon State University - College of Agricultural Sciences - Ilex crenata - Japanese Holly
United States Department of Agriculture - Ilex crenata - Japanese Holly
Ohio State University - Ilex crenata - Japanese Holly

Not trying to start a soil war :) but if you google "ilex crenata" you will surf through four pages (or more) of references to Japanese Holly, and not a single one for Chinese Holly. I stopped at four pages :)

I don't really care whether it is a Chinese holly, Yaupon Holly, or a Japanese Holly, because my advice wouldn't change for any of these three species. I own all three and they are pretty similar. If you look at my advice, I don't believe anyone would change anything... but perhaps so, and I would love to hear about it! I am not about to fall on a bonsai sword over the difference in care between Japanese Holly and Yaupon Holly :)

After reading this post, I hope I don't sound like a dick who always has to be right. I'm not and I don't :) In fact, this is one of these cases where I hope someone comes forward and says my care instructions are wrong - and I will learn something from the experience. FWIW as I was out in my property today trying to take photos of Virginia creepers for another thread, I was struck by the literal HUNDREDS of Ilex opaca seedlings that I have more or less everywhere. Let me know if you need/want some!
 
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Leo in N E Illinois

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You are right, every word of your advice is on target regardless the species.

The OP said Chinese holly. The native range of Ilex crenata includes a large area of China. It is a holly native to both China & Japan. I agree, in english it is almost ALWAYS called Japanese holly. I assumed the seller who offered this plant to the OP was not a native speaker of english but that is an assumption on my part.

Your cultural advice is spot on. No offense taken
 

Ambobley

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@Forsoothe! thanks for the info, it's as i'd feared really. I will get in contact with the group and go from there - thanks so much for finding that!

@Bonsai Nut Thanks so much for taking the time to send over the pics! The leaves of mind do definitely have teeth on them
https://www.bonsai.co.uk/product.php?productid=6916&cat=&page=1 this is the website which the bonsai was ordered from, just for interest (and for @Leo in N E Illinois)
I had moved the tree from the window to a side table when I went on holiday before this, so I think that may be why the leaves dropped, it was mainly inner leaves where everything is criss-crossed/dense (hence now I can see the mess of the inner structure). I have moved it back to the window as soon as I came back and it hasn't dropped any more so that's good.
Will look at pruning in the spring then, it's just so tempting to try tidy all the criss crossing up! Haha, but I will refrain :)

@sorce thank you so much :) I got it off ali express!

@essdoesbonsai that's good to know, thank you. I had my holly outside when i first got it in summer and it grew a ton, the shelf on the window is on the first floor though and with the winter winds I'm a bit dubious about putting in on there. (although I have a japanese maple out there right now, since this definitely needs to be outside).
 
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Pruning Japanese Holly (Ilex crenata) is a delicate yet essential practice that can significantly enhance the health and aesthetics of these beautiful evergreen shrubs. Proper pruning promotes a dense and compact growth habit while maintaining their natural form. It helps to remove dead or diseased branches, improving air circulation and preventing the spread of pests and diseases. Additionally, judicious pruning can shape the plant, giving it a more refined appearance.

I appreciate the emphasis on the importance of timing in pruning Japanese Holly. Conducting this task during the dormant season, typically in late winter or early spring, minimizes stress on the plant and encourages vigorous regrowth. It's crucial to use sharp, clean tools to make precise cuts, reducing the risk of injury and promoting faster healing.

Regular maintenance pruning, such as removing inward-growing branches, is key to achieving a balanced and symmetrical shape. However, caution should be exercised to avoid over-pruning, which can weaken the plant. In conclusion, a thoughtful and well-timed approach to pruning Japanese Holly contributes to their overall well-being and enhances their visual appeal.
 
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