Pyracantha Air Layer

ConorDash

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Hello,

Not expecting a great deal of comments, as there isn't much to say about it yet really!
This is an air layer I started nearly 10 weeks ago, and what its roots currently look like.
I did worry that they aren't quite the colour of roots I was expecting but, I leave that to better minds than mine to tell me. I think they are ok. It lives under a canopy so gets so sun, so no burning of the roots. It's part of a big, wide spreading pyracantha tree that's been in the garden for probably over a decade I would guess, maybe even 2. I've only lived here for 6 years.
Any thoughts on it, appreciated as always.

My thoughts were that I would hope to seperate it, at least 6-8 weeks before the first frost, as I don't think it'd be good to leave it over winter, through danger of it being damaged by cold. Separating it that many weeks before, should be long enough (i have read) in order for it to be strong enough to get through winter.

image.jpeg image.jpeg image.jpeg
 

aml1014

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You've honestly got enough roots to separate and prune the layer back right now, but, it never hurts to wait a bit longer. 6-8 weeks before you average first frost should be fine.
The roots on pyracantha are definitely funny colors but that's just how they are.

Aaron
 

ConorDash

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You've honestly got enough roots to separate and prune the layer back right now, but, it never hurts to wait a bit longer. 6-8 weeks before you average first frost should be fine.
The roots on pyracantha are definitely funny colors but that's just how they are.

Aaron
Do you have experience with pyracanthas then?
If so, you may become my new best friend for its advice, so choose words carefully ;) lol.
I loved some pics of a bonsai pyracantha online and happened to have one in the garden, a big one, that I could do many air layers on. It's certainly a good long term project though.
 

AlainK

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I'd love to see the upper part of the air-layer, the future "tree".

I think you should be safe severing it now, providing you can keep it safe if temps go below -2 or -3° for a few hours at night.

In Essex, where there is an oceanic climate, it should be OK to separate it now. I think that you've had a heat wave up there too, it means that the soil will keep warm temperatures at least for three weeks. If you put the severed air-layer in a windless dappled shade spot, it will live.

On top of that, both pyracantha and cotonester are about the same, and "literature" says cuttings are best done in September.
 

aml1014

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Do you have experience with pyracanthas then?
If so, you may become my new best friend for its advice, so choose words carefully ;) lol.
I loved some pics of a bonsai pyracantha online and happened to have one in the garden, a big one, that I could do many air layers on. It's certainly a good long term project though.
I only have a twin trunk that I'm training but I do have a few years of experience with them at the nursery.

Aaron
 

AlainK

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"Accidental cuttings" made in March, or April.

I trimmed a Pyracantha and "forgot" bits opf branches that I put in a glass jar with water. Three weeks later - I had totally forgotten about them, I saw that white roots were circling the jar!

One of them in 2013, two years later :



Another one a couple of days ago, a different approach:



Oï, mama, mame, mamele... :rolleyes:

 

ConorDash

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I'd love to see the upper part of the air-layer, the future "tree".

I think you should be safe severing it now, providing you can keep it safe if temps go below -2 or -3° for a few hours at night.

In Essex, where there is an oceanic climate, it should be OK to separate it now. I think that you've had a heat wave up there too, it means that the soil will keep warm temperatures at least for three weeks. If you put the severed air-layer in a windless dappled shade spot, it will live.

On top of that, both pyracantha and cotonester are about the same, and "literature" says cuttings are best done in September.
I'll get you a picture of it tomorrow. I'm afraid it's unexciting though, quite a straight branch but has some thickness at least.
I looked at a good number of places to do the air layer but all were very straight or too thin for my liking.

Our winter temps, I believe, go to a maximum of minus 3-4 degrees. If it is potted, what would you do to "keep it safe"? I have a garage and shed, both unheated but will easily stay warmer than outside during winter. Yes we just had a heat wave, amazing heat.. 32-33degrees being our hottest.
I will make sure it is in a more windless spot, once it's seperated. Given the advice here so far, I may seperate it within a week then. Given your experience with pyracantha and the like, any advice on potting medium? I was trying to use a cat litter soil, suggested by Harry Harrington and others on here and his blog have also vouched for its use. It'd be a completely inorganic mix, could put some chopped bark or sphagnum moss in, if need be. I say "trying" because so far I've only used it once on a top half of an air layer Chinese elm, so I'm not experienced in its use.

"Accidental cuttings" made in March, or April.

I trimmed a Pyracantha and "forgot" bits opf branches that I put in a glass jar with water. Three weeks later - I had totally forgotten about them, I saw that white roots were circling the jar!

One of them in 2013, two years later :



Another one a couple of days ago, a different approach:



Oï, mama, mame, mamele... :rolleyes:

Both very pretty trees, very surprisingly how it rooted so much and lived, with just a branch in a jar of water, I might do some accidental cuttings myself next March if it works that well :). There's a lot of mother tree so it's no loss.
That's a nice little shohin, do you have big future plans for that one? Looks like it could do well.
Thanks for the advice, very much appreciated.
 

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The thing about Pyra, at least mine, is there isnt much taper in the branches. Ive a big one that needs some layering, but the thorns have put me off.
The bark seems very similar to crabapple to me and Im not surprise it roots well.
CW
 

ConorDash

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The thing about Pyra, at least mine, is there isnt much taper in the branches. Ive a big one that needs some layering, but the thorns have put me off.
The bark seems very similar to crabapple to me and Im not surprise it roots well.
CW
Yes, that's exactly what I see on it, there is hardly much tapering at all, unless the tree is bigger. As the idea of bonsai is for it to be smaller, it doesn't seem a great match for bonsai. Not that, that will stop me of course.
I was going to do grow and chop with this for a number of years, that was the plan, due to the very straight, taperless trunk, but good to see other people's ideas.

God the thorns hurt like a.... I had gloves on... I soon took those off to put on thicker ones, the damn thorns went straight through the rubber.
Can I see your one, any pics?
 

Shima

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Pics? You want pics? Hurricane Lester is bearing down on us so it's sopping out there and I'm bored so here goes. Here's a shohin in it's first pot and later in new white robes. I actually prefer the brown one so am still looking for the "right" pot. Wish I'd removed the berries. P1010032.JPG P1010689.JPG P1000204.JPG P1000224.JPG P1000225.JPG Then a progression of how it all began. As you can see, the roots were pathetic. There was only one solution in my view, a layer.
 

ConorDash

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Next are two quick and dirty shots of a larger pyracantha. Make that three. It's now in the new rain shelter with everything else all improving with better control of conditions. View attachment 115417 View attachment 115418 View attachment 115419
Thanks, good looking trees :). I feel like I have seen that large, blue pot pyracantha somewhere before...
Really nice shohins. I don't even know what kind of size I'm looking at for this air layer of mine.
I'll just go get a pic of the future tree now.
As I say though, it's a very straight plain branch without much interest.
 

ConorDash

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@AlainK
Some pics of the whole tree (or 2 trees) and the future tree from air layer.
Few of the trees stumps too, just for interest.


image.jpeg image.jpeg image.jpeg image.jpeg image.jpeg image.jpeg
 

CWTurner

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Can I see your one, any pics?
Connor,
Sorry, forgot to answer this.
My bush is very similar to yours, but difficult to photograph because of all the surrounding shrubbery.
Maybe you could try an air layer right where this branch thickens as shown.
image.jpeg
I know its not a typical air layer location, but I have one going on a crabapple in the same area just to have some taper. It seems to be taking.
See http://www.bonsainut.com/threads/crab-apple-air-layers.24391/#post-379509
CW
 

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I have one going on a crabapple in the same area just to have some taper. It seems to be taking.
There is another way to get this if you are willing to spend an extra season. Just wrap the stem with a wire tourniquet; the stem will swell, making a nice flair, just above it. Then you can choose to remove the wire and cut a girdle below or to just package it up as you would any other layer.
 

ConorDash

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Connor,
Sorry, forgot to answer this.
My bush is very similar to yours, but difficult to photograph because of all the surrounding shrubbery.
Maybe you could try an air layer right where this branch thickens as shown.
View attachment 115837
I know its not a typical air layer location, but I have one going on a crabapple in the same area just to have some taper. It seems to be taking.
See http://www.bonsainut.com/threads/crab-apple-air-layers.24391/#post-379509
CW
Certainly an idea :) but I am restricted in terms of how much I can take. It is still my mums garden and the tree is used, so I can't take too much of it lol. But that would be a good place and give a nice thick branch. But you can see how all the branch slack taper, must be a species thing.

There is another way to get this if you are willing to spend an extra season. Just wrap the stem with a wire tourniquet; the stem will swell, making a nice flair, just above it. Then you can choose to remove the wire and cut a girdle below or to just package it up as you would any other layer.
This is for another air layer right, not talking about the current on going one?
I've not heard of that technique before, it sounds like a good way to get at least a bit of taper or flair, quite minimal though but better than if not having done it.
Have you ever done it?
 

petegreg

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Our winter temps, I believe, go to a maximum of minus 3-4 degrees. If it is potted, what would you do to "keep it safe"? I have a garage and shed, both unheated but will easily stay warmer than outside during winter.
This should be strong enough when the winter comes. Trees grow roots down to the temperature of 5℃. Mulching it outside in the shade will be enough.
 

0soyoung

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