Q's on hard-pruning this leggy Adenium/desert rose:

[SU2]

I've got little experience w/ Adeniums, I know it's better to wait a month but this isn't mine & client wants it done, will be going Mon (we're a 'warm' zone 9b here, and it's inside a fenced pool-area) to prune it for spring/summer.

I'm hoping for thoughts & suggestions, the goal is to basically get it into a "skeleton form" I can kinda leave the owner with, I mean they'll probably have me back at some point for further maintenance but who knows, so was thinking to hard-prune all the primaries except the fattest, highest-on-trunk one which I'd "medium prune" so it could stay as leader (maybe leave it un-touched?), and then I'd be wiring out the branches, to form a basic 'topiary-type' rounded half-oval top so the client can let the new growth come in & simply use scissors or pinching to keep it "to shape"

Pics:

Have also considered leaving *two* of those primaries as leaders, I mean that trunk needs *something* to make it stretch upward/be less of a circle lol, and so far as general "canopy design" I guess I'm picturing the type of canopy that isn't necessarily "professionally appropriate" when it's defoliated, but will still look good to "the 99%" (why I said "topiary" earlier, am imagining setting-up a "skeleton" so the client can use scissors just "keeping the final shape we choose" something more like:


Thanks a ton, am eager to do some real work on an adenium heck for years b4 getting into bonsai my favorite "tree" was actually an adenium (this guy:

 

[Forsoothe!]

The pictures of the specimen trees look decidedly Vietnamese. I think that's a good goal for your customer unless they said they want a bonsai style, in which case you're screwed.

 

[Cadillactaste]

Might want to look into the boot camp $5. Jerome knows his Adenium. But maybe you might gain something from it.

Homepage

onlinebonsai.teachable.com

 

[rodeolthr]

I wrote about my adeniums on another post. These are my experiences in one particular climate. I am growing both obesum and arabicum. They are growing in the atomic summers of the Coachella Valley, near Palm Springs. They love the heat and intense UV and I never have an issue with legginess. It is often 120F in the summer. They are in full sun, with many getting reflected heat/light from a white stucco wall. They send out branches everywhere and only begin blooming when the temps stay in the mid-high 80s, and then bloom continuously throughout summer and fall. Only now are they semi-dormant because nighttime temps are in the 40s/50s. To that end, I would suggest that if it's not receiving full sun and heat, try a location that might be more favorable.

 

[SU2]

The pictures of the specimen trees look decidedly Vietnamese. I think that's a good goal for your customer unless they said they want a bonsai style, in which case you're screwed.

I wanted to say that the larger one (the biggest & best one pictured) was actually Canadian Arboretum but I couldn't find it when looking, oh well...(that image, however grainy, is from my personal folders and for ages was my favorite 'specimen tree', I didn't even know the difference between trunk & caudex nor own bonsai at that point )

Customer's goal is very very unclear, I think it is typical "Got it, it's grown-out, uncertain WTH to do with it now" situation (customer is not a client, will be meeting them when I see this tree tomorrow...I promote myself for actual/large tree services like climbing/cutting, but somehow got linked this neat lil job, first time ever that i'll be doing someone else's "little trees" and am not planning to charge him)

I figure the primaries have been able to grow nicely, **I** look at it and think "Chop all those suckers to ~4-->8" long, except leave 1 or 2 of the highest&thickest to remain taller as 'leaders', to create a 'round-top' canopy", this way I'm just doing the cuts, wiring the primaries out radially from the trunk as best I can, and from there its owner can begin "silhouette pruning" or "hedge trim pruning" method....sound on-point?

I know it's fine for bougies/crapes/etc but have never done hard prunes on an adenium (from what i've seen, it looks like sealing the cuts would be a bad idea, and that I should be making higher-than-wanted cuts to account for die-back...ideally I'd have 2 sessions with it to "set skeleton/bones" for them...)

 

[SU2]

Might want to look into the boot camp $5. Jerome knows his Adenium. But maybe you might gain something from it.

Homepage

onlinebonsai.teachable.com

Page gives me a sad ... Such a great idea, to have a species-specific breakdown, but that paywalled approach kills it (it's not like that's Jerome's page, that's some middleman, an "angie's list for IP"), hate supporting such business models & avoid when at all possible (which is certainly the case for bonsai-specific stuff, both here and just online in-general!)

 

[SU2]

I wrote about my adeniums on another post. These are my experiences in one particular climate. I am growing both obesum and arabicum. They are growing in the atomic summers of the Coachella Valley, near Palm Springs. They love the heat and intense UV and I never have an issue with legginess. It is often 120F in the summer. They are in full sun, with many getting reflected heat/light from a white stucco wall. They send out branches everywhere and only begin blooming when the temps stay in the mid-high 80s, and then bloom continuously throughout summer and fall. Only now are they semi-dormant because nighttime temps are in the 40s/50s. To that end, I would suggest that if it's not receiving full sun and heat, try a location that might be more favorable.

Heck yeah thanks a ton

Feel free to ignore but if you have a min I'd love some specifics, notably:

- were you able to tell by that pic if I'm dealing w/ an Obesum or an Arabicum? Had thought the former, now realize I'm not certain at all about that thought!

- just how sensitive are they to overwatering?

I told the owner that, ideally, we would do this pruning next month because of the weather being far more favorable for the rebound growth it'll get after I prune & wire it tomorrow, will see if there's a better sun-location for me to suggest moving it to (as long as that's not gonna expose it to significantly greater winds, since my biggest concern is a flush popping and then getting fully wiped-out by a cold evening, we are still having evenings dipping into the 40's here)

Any comparisons (in terms of water/wet-feet, but also of any type!) you could make with Bougainvillea would be great, it's the nearest 'reference' I know because it wants more warmth than my area has (but tolerates it / grows properly here anyways), it shies from wet-substrates especially hard, etc....but obviously it has a trunk, not a caudex!

Again thanks for that reply that helped a ton

 

[Danteswake]

Just a few thoughts. Jerome is really good on this subject. I live in 9b as well. One other option is Maria's Garden on YouTube. She is a big believer in putting cinnamon on any cuts. Mine is still in the garage, as you mentioned we have 40's and high winds coming in the next few days. Too early for me to bring it out. I think one strategy is raising the cuadex an inch up every season, making your base show nice and plump. Good luck.

 

[Cadillactaste]

Page gives me a sad ... Such a great idea, to have a species-specific breakdown, but that paywalled approach kills it (it's not like that's Jerome's page, that's some middleman, an "angie's list for IP"), hate supporting such business models & avoid when at all possible (which is certainly the case for bonsai-specific stuff, both here and just online in-general!)

That link came from his menu from his bonsai website. let me just put his website and one can hit the menu options but it would take one to the same place. Checked it again. It redirects you there from his site. Try it yourself.

The Bonsai Supply - Quality & Affordable Bonsai Supplies

The Bonsai Supply offers premium-quality bonsai supplies at affordable prices. Connecting and growing the Bonsai community around the world

thebonsaisupply.com

 

[Trenthany]

Page gives me a sad ... Such a great idea, to have a species-specific breakdown, but that paywalled approach kills it (it's not like that's Jerome's page, that's some middleman, an "angie's list for IP"), hate supporting such business models & avoid when at all possible (which is certainly the case for bonsai-specific stuff, both here and just online in-general!)

While I don’t like paywalls anymore than the next person Jerome gives out so much free information elsewhere I don’t begrudge him charging for mini-intensives that you can get access too that are specific to your tree without having to hunt for it on the internet. Bonsainut is my go to for info but I also watch a lot of the biggies (or at least best promoted) videos because they’re free info from pros. I also question everyone I can when I can.

My theory is if the content in that $5 segment saves me a $10 tree then it’s worth it. If it helps me to develop that $10 tree into a $100 tree then I’d be a fool not to pay it. of course I’m not in it for the money, but the enjoyment and I’m not into adenium that much so I won’t be paying it, but to denigrate a valid business technique especially in a business like this seems harsh.

I mean as a part of a family business I can’t tell you how many people say we must be making money hand over fist when in reality we’re struggling. I’m sure bonsai nurseries have similar problems. You ever been to one where the owners aren’t working the trees every single day? I haven’t. Unless they’re out buying or collecting everyone I know of if you want to talk to the owner you go there and talk to them or you have their cell number. If you don’t have one of those you wait for a call back because they’re out working.

Those $5 boot camps take time. How much is Jerome’s time worth? How many does he sell at $5 each? How much of that time is spent making free content as well? Between taking care of trees making free content and running a business I think a few intensive mini classes could be $5 each. And if his mini. Classes aren’t worth it after trying one then you’re out $5.

sorry for the long rant but I get upset when people say a business isn’t worth X for Y when they’ve never tried Y especially when people who have say it is worth it. If you said my canoe trip isn’t worth the price I’d ask if you had done it. If you said no then your opinion is worth about as much as a bucket of warm spit to me as my uncle would say.

 

[SU2]

While I don’t like paywalls anymore than the next person Jerome gives out so much free information elsewhere I don’t begrudge him charging for mini-intensives that you can get access too that are specific to your tree without having to hunt for it on the internet.

I gotta be clear that I do not know of him, and that knowing of him - or having full conviction that there's genuine value 'for the $' - has nothing to do w/ my resistance. I resist the model itself....I feel bad for those who have to rely upon it (errr, let's re-phrase: Those who *think* they have to rely upon it) because more often than not it seems they're getting the short end of the stick, and I've no intention of perpetuating that model (there are plenty of other reasons I disagree w/ centralization of data's in general but don't wanna write a manifesto here )
Furthermore, in this shared passion of ours - the artistry of living plants as a medium for creation - more often than not it strikes me very wrong when someone's saying "MY info is of such higher value than others that I have put a paywall on it" (if that's NOT what they're saying, then it is basically "please subsidize my hobby")
Jerome is a 100% unknown quantity to me and not the reason, I guess I mean to say though that it'd be awesome to see people like him thriving from live demonstrations, sales of trees etc etc, than paywalling information..
(PS- even if I had zero ideological issues w/ such models, the *practical* reality is there's bea coup info for free online anyways, honestly if I paid someone for info I would feel I owed a $ debt to every professional from @adamaskwhy (no longer member? no hyperlink..) to @Zach Smith who has ever helped me in ways that saved me TONS of time, $ and effort!)
[edited-in: I did Like your post because I know you're coming from a good place, that you believe is right, I just disagree w/ it....honestly I'd be happy to try changing your mind in the off-topic sub here if you're interested but doubt it's worth pursuing here....have actual Adenium stuff I wanna dig into ;D ]

 

[Trenthany]

I

I gotta be clear that I do not know of him, and that knowing of him - or having full conviction that there's genuine value 'for the $' - has nothing to do w/ my resistance. I resist the model itself....I feel bad for those who have to rely upon it (errr, let's re-phrase: Those who *think* they have to rely upon it) because more often than not it seems they're getting the short end of the stick, and I've no intention of perpetuating that model (there are plenty of other reasons I disagree w/ centralization of data's in general but don't wanna write a manifesto here )
Furthermore, in this shared passion of ours - the artistry of living plants as a medium for creation - more often than not it strikes me very wrong when someone's saying "MY info is of such higher value than others that I have put a paywall on it" (if that's NOT what they're saying, then it is basically "please subsidize my hobby")
Jerome is a 100% unknown quantity to me and not the reason, I guess I mean to say though that it'd be awesome to see people like him thriving from live demonstrations, sales of trees etc etc, than paywalling information..
(PS- even if I had zero ideological issues w/ such models, the *practical* reality is there's bea coup info for free online anyways, honestly if I paid someone for info I would feel I owed a $ debt to every professional from @adamaskwhy (no longer member? no hyperlink..) to @Zach Smith who has ever helped me in ways that saved me TONS of time, $ and effort!)
[edited-in: I did Like your post because I know you're coming from a good place, that you believe is right, I just disagree w/ it....honestly I'd be happy to try changing your mind in the off-topic sub here if you're interested but doubt it's worth pursuing here....have actual Adenium stuff I wanna dig into ;D ]

have every intention of buying from Zach to subsidize his hobby and probably Jerome too if I ever find a tree I like that hasn’t sold already! Lol.

 

[Danteswake]

I think, imho, that Jerome, Adam and Nigel have a tremendous amount of knowledge to share for free. Even better, they seem like good people that love the art. I subscribe, give likes and pay attention. And I do buy product from Jerome. As a small community its nice to know we can just say the first name and we know who each other are talking about. Here's a question, why is it that I've tried numerous times reaching out to Bonsai clubs around Tampa but no one ever responds? Without BNut friends or YouTube, I'm on my own. Just saying.

 

[Carol 83]

I

have every intention of buying from Zach to subsidize his hobby and probably Jerome too if I ever find a tree I like that hasn’t sold already! Lol.

I would definitely recommend buying from @Zach Smith . His material is awesome, if potted it's always in a quality pot. He sends care sheets with each tree, shipping is included with the price of the tree and he is happy to give advice after you receive the tree.

 

[Trenthany]

I think, imho, that Jerome, Adam and Nigel have a tremendous amount of knowledge to share for free. Even better, they seem like good people that love the art. I subscribe, give likes and pay attention. And I do buy product from Jerome. As a small community its nice to know we can just say the first name and we know who each other are talking about. Here's a question, why is it that I've tried numerous times reaching out to Bonsai clubs around Tampa but no one ever responds? Without BNut friends or YouTube, I'm on my own. Just saying.

Try sho fu in Sarasota if you’re south Tampa. I find that all over FL because of the rampant bonsai theft of you aren’t known then they will ignore you.

 

[rodeolthr]

@SU2 I'm certainly not an expert on the subject, so I wouldn't want to say which you have. What I see in mine is that the obesum tend to keep the caudex below the soil surface unless they are intentionally raised to show it off. Arabicum seems to bulk up all over and the stems are much stockier . Concerning water, please understand that the "soil" in this area is truly just sand. These plants are on a drip system and get water every day for several minutes during the summer. When temps stay in the 100s/110s/120, then they get water 2x daily. The bougainvillea grow in exactly the same conditions here. It's hard to say how much water they will take without rotting since this sand/soil doesn't hold any moisture except in winter. I do have one Arabicum that is in a corner facing south and west. It has white stucco on both sides and I can't even imagine how hot it is in the summer. It however has a sprinkler head that puts out a higher volume of water. It is the largest, in girth and height, of all the adenium I have. I will try to post some photos. Hope that helps a bit.

 

[SU2]

I think, imho, that Jerome, Adam and Nigel have a tremendous amount of knowledge to share for free. Even better, they seem like good people that love the art. I subscribe, give likes and pay attention. And I do buy product from Jerome. As a small community its nice to know we can just say the first name and we know who each other are talking about. Here's a question, why is it that I've tried numerous times reaching out to Bonsai clubs around Tampa but no one ever responds? Without BNut friends or YouTube, I'm on my own. Just saying.

Re the (off)topic: Yes I agree (although I dislike Nigel's style/aesthetics, in fact he's among my least favorite artistically but I respect the hell out of him & what he does), the "community aspect" is amazing, and I've actually been lucky enough to meet Adam on 3 or 4 occasions (you may be able to as well if you go to a Hukyu / Suncoast bonsai club meeting as I get impression he does >1 workshop / year with them, although it's been a good while since I've gone to the club.
(furthermore, that "community aspect" is HUGE to me, it allowed me to use forums again which I had previously given up on because of the BS that's inherent to most topics, but bonsai...we share in the same passion and help each other progress, it is awesome to be a part of it........so, even though this is NOT my primary reason for refusing paywalls, it always struck me as a bit self-centered to paywall because the simple reality is that NONE of you/us are fully self-taught, so the thinking of learning 99% of your knowledge "from the community" for free, and then turning around and saying you wanna be paid for some niche, specific advice you have...just sounds so selfish, I mean when I find quirks in Bougainvilleas I'm eager to "get them online" so others know & can find it via search engines, it may be "my insight" but it's only possible by virtue of the FAR more important 'base' 99% insight that I got for free!)

Another thought on the actual model Jerome is using, because I do have respect for people who post publicly but sell goods (t's, mugs etc), or who have donation options (even if they're kinda aggressive in encouraging your donation), the model linked earlier is a "middleman site", these sites are not some passive repository for people like Jerome to meet people like us and conduct a fair transaction, because the middleman ends up doing all they can to game the system to the disadvantage of both Jerome and those who would buy from him, this may not be obvious on something as relatively small as Instructables.com(IIRC that's where jerome is?), but look at Angie's List.....I'm literally planning to pay them $$ this afternoon, not because I want to, but because I basically have to, I'm a fledgling tree-service (climbing/rigging/felling) in need of new clients and they've got a monopoly on my area- to not use them on ethical grounds is basically 'cutting off one's nose to spite their face', it's that big of an entity. And they've got a strangle-hold, they convince homeowners that the businesses are not "paying to play", then basically tell people like me "if you don't pay your listing will be so buried it's pointless, BUT we have a good pay-to-play system that is a good-value for you", and sadly that is the case in my area for me right now.... What I mean to convey is the middleman is not altruistic, whether angie's or instructables, and I wouldn't support either model unless I had to!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Re tampa area...whereabooots are you specifically? I'm upper-half of pinellas....cannot say there's any formal stuff besides the hukyu/suncoast meetings which are 2x/mo, although if you frequent this site & you are seriously&routinely practicing and learning your craft, you may find much of their info is more 'beginner-focused' but I expect that to be a common phenomena... Do you buy trees or collect? Am watching the BC groves every day now, waiting to see the first dots of green in a grove that tell me 'the time has come' ;D