Quercus shedding leaves already?

[Forsoothe!]

If it has "large" bonsai media surrounding an original rootball of say, clay, that can get hard to water the central part of the rootball, having the water pass down the outside of the rootball through the "large" media. Over time, as the clay gets drier and drier in the interior it can become almost water-proof.

 

[maroun.c]

If it has "large" bonsai media surrounding an original rootball of say, clay, that can get hard to water the central part of the rootball, having the water pass down the outside of the rootball through the "large" media. Over time, as the clay gets drier and drier in the interior it can become almost water-proof.

Both media, one it was in and the surrounding one is the clay type soil he grows all his trees is. Were at same elevation and roughly have same weather ( yet his garden gets a bit more sun and more wind than mine. I've so far killed most of the trees I get from him in repots out of that soil or from watering. I was always watering more I guess so last 2 years I was very cautious watering the trees in his soil till I git them to bonsai soil. Tree did well as said for last few months and pushed leaves aggressively and went through summer great (so would believe roots were at least ok) bummed to loose it as it has a nice base. Still hoping base is alive and that it'll sprout a few branches to regrow although looking at the suckers at the base which are dying I suspect whole tree is indeed dead.
Should I take off all leaves and keep watering mildly till early winter and try to repot into better soil to see if it makes it? Or will the repot definitely kill any chance it has ?

 

[Forsoothe!]

This is déjà vu all over again... You need to prove that you can keep his trees alive for a whole year before you repot anything else. Normally, it's very unusual to over water anything in the growing season, Pines excepted. Your description of his and your growing conditions sounds like his is more challenging. I suspect that you are repotting at the wrong time for your climate and situation. Problem is, I probably don't understand your micro-climate enough to micro-manage you from 8,000 miles away. Each species has an optimal schedule for major work, usually spread over a fairly wide period and many of us do things in seasons that others swear is wrong, but many of our climates are more or less forgiving for horticulture. I don't think of Beirut as having much cropland surrounding it, I think of pictures of Iraq where the farms grow dates, poppies and olives where the water is. If that is approximately right then you need to sneak in repotting at just the right time. That is when the plant is ready to spring into life in spring, where you have a more friendly period for growth long enough to mature a new canopy of leaves/needles before the weather gets too hot and unforgiving. The buds for the next year are matured through the following summer/hot season and are life or death for plants. Each part of the growing season has an important contribution, and none are optional.

Are you buying plants that you see in the local landscape? For the time being, you shouldn't try to grow in a pot those that you don't see growing in the landscape. Exotics, and anything in a pot take more effort and expertise. All of us do it, and we have plenty of ongoing losses because we don't or won't or can't give the precise care necessary. I lose exotics every year, and buy more. Been there, done that.

Buy the plants at any time, but do not do anything to them until you've had them for a whole year. For each plant you need to confidently know what dates a given plant starts to actively grow, that's when you do one major insult per year: either repot and root reduction, or major architecture reduction and wiring. The third option of leaf size reduction through defoliating is only possible to a very healthy tree at just the right time, too, so is a bridge too far for you until a few years down the line.

 

[Forsoothe!]

Leave the Oak leaves in place. Oaks often keep their leaves until the new leaves emerge and probably need to protect the buds in the axils in those cases. For any other species I would say cut them off when dead.

 

[maroun.c]

This is déjà vu all over again... You need to prove that you can keep his trees alive for a whole year before you repot anything else. Normally, it's very unusual to over water anything in the growing season, Pines excepted. Your description of his and your growing conditions sounds like his is more challenging. I suspect that you are repotting at the wrong time for your climate and situation. Problem is, I probably don't understand your micro-climate enough to micro-manage you from 8,000 miles away. Each species has an optimal schedule for major work, usually spread over a fairly wide period and many of us do things in seasons that others swear is wrong, but many of our climates are more or less forgiving for horticulture. I don't think of Beirut as having much cropland surrounding it, I think of pictures of Iraq where the farms grow dates, poppies and olives where the water is. If that is approximately right then you need to sneak in repotting at just the right time. That is when the plant is ready to spring into life in spring, where you have a more friendly period for growth long enough to mature a new canopy of leaves/needles before the weather gets too hot and unforgiving. The buds for the next year are matured through the following summer/hot season and are life or death for plants. Each part of the growing season has an important contribution, and none are optional.

Are you buying plants that you see in the local landscape? For the time being, you shouldn't try to grow in a pot those that you don't see growing in the landscape. Exotics, and anything in a pot take more effort and expertise. All of us do it, and we have plenty of ongoing losses because we don't or won't or can't give the precise care necessary. I lose exotics every year, and buy more. Been there, done that.

Buy the plants at any time, but do not do anything to them until you've had them for a whole year. For each plant you need to confidently know what dates a given plant starts to actively grow, that's when you do one major insult per year: either repot and root reduction, or major architecture reduction and wiring. The third option of leaf size reduction through defoliating is only possible to a very healthy tree at just the right time, too, so is a bridge too far for you until a few years down the line.

My climate and his are basically the same as he's only 40KM away from.me and basically at same.altitude. this tree he had moved from growing pot where he says he had it for 10-15 years to a bonsai pot with same type of soil with no working out of the roots. I got it around Christmas this year and haven't done anything to it but water and fwrrilize . It pushed leaves and thought it was doing great and really doubt I overwatered in summer enough for it to die this fast. Yes oaks are local to us and he says he collected it. I have oaks around my place so climate is definitely not an issue.
Iraq is a much more extreme weather as it reaches 45-50 degrees Celsius and is more of a desert. We have Mediterranean climate here with 4 milder seasons except for a bit of a hotter summer usually at 35isd degrees Celsius and cooler at night and maximum reaching 38-40 on few days. Add to a nit of humidity as were on the Mediterranean Sea.
I'll do as u suggest and keep the leave and water a bit less and hope for buds to push or a few new suckers to grow from base to rebuild the tree.
Thanks

 

[Potawatomi13]

Good fortune.

 

[Shibui]

Removing dead leaves only helps the owner. Won't make any difference to the tree.
No point in scratching bark either. It is either alive or dead scraping bark won't change that. It may help decide whether to toss now or continue care but I always continue care until the following growing season as I have seen so many apparently dead trees come back after 6 months or sometimes even longer. Stay optimistic and try to maintain reasonable moisture levels until mid summer next before pronouncing death.

My best guess is that slip potting may have something to do with the problem. Not because of root damage or repotting out of season but as @Forsoothe! has mentioned it can be harder for water to pass between old and new soils. Occasionally this will also happen when the soils are the same and more often when the old root mass is very pot bound. Meanwhile the roots are all in the old section and taking more and more water which cannot pass freely from the new surrounding soil. made even worse as root growth continues to fill spaces that would hold water in the old section. Each day the interior gets drier and drier until the tree finally dehydrates past the point of comfort and scraps the leaves in an effort to survive - even though the outer soil is still damp.

You have little to lose by investigating. Try digging gently down along the old/new junction to see if any roots have grown into the new soil. Try to check moisture content of each section to see if centre is dry. if it appears the old center part is dry, soak the whole pot immediately overnight to rehydrate the roots. It often takes a good soak to re wet dry soils.

 

[Bnana]

I do believe this is caused by our soul and bad repotting indeed.

The scratch test does not give a lot of hope but I do not like that method. If the tree is still alive but weak you create a wound where infections can get in. Why would you want to do that?
The advice to scratch the bark is often given here but I think that it should be used very sparingly.

 

[namnhi]

Am sorry but from the look, it is dying and nothing can be done to bring it back. All the young leaves are collapsing prematurely...
point to the issue with the roots. Even the sprouts from the root are dying.

 

[Forsoothe!]

My climate and his are basically the same as he's only 40KM away from.me and basically at same.altitude. this tree he had moved from growing pot where he says he had it for 10-15 years to a bonsai pot with same type of soil with no working out of the roots. I got it around Christmas this year and haven't done anything to it but water and fwrrilize . It pushed leaves and thought it was doing great and really doubt I overwatered in summer enough for it to die this fast. Yes oaks are local to us and he says he collected it. I have oaks around my place so climate is definitely not an issue.
Iraq is a much more extreme weather as it reaches 45-50 degrees Celsius and is more of a desert. We have Mediterranean climate here with 4 milder seasons except for a bit of a hotter summer usually at 35isd degrees Celsius and cooler at night and maximum reaching 38-40 on few days. Add to a nit of humidity as were on the Mediterranean Sea.
I'll do as u suggest and keep the leave and water a bit less and hope for buds to push or a few new suckers to grow from base to rebuild the tree.
Thanks

This all doesn't add up. Putting out a full canopy and passing through summer only to drop dead (apparently) in early autumn tells me the repot was OK and the soil was OK. Is there some kind of local disease of Oaks in the area? For instance, here we have an Oak disease that spreads in summer through cuts and will kill an entire stand because Oaks graft roots in a grove. Sudden Oak Death sounds like the culprit where you are.

 

[Firstflush]

 

[Mike Corazzi]

I was expecting a reply that it's pining for the fjords.

 

[QuantumSparky]

All I can say is that I have a red oak sapling and it still has its leaves, in fact it has been growing new ones in the past 2 weeks

 

[Firstflush]

“No, no…. it’s resting!”

 

[maroun.c]

This all doesn't add up. Putting out a full canopy and passing through summer only to drop dead (apparently) in early autumn tells me the repot was OK and the soil was OK. Is there some kind of local disease of Oaks in the area? For instance, here we have an Oak disease that spreads in summer through cuts and will kill an entire stand because Oaks graft roots in a grove. Sudden Oak Death sounds like the culprit where you are.

Exactly thats what I wasn't getting as if repot was bad then tree would have suffered in summer. Just checked with a nursery close by and they have seen disease in the past that caused similar to this look but not recently. He said they had some luck with some spray medication but believes its too late for my tree.

 

[John P.]

I doubt SOD is the culprit here, but who knows. I wonder if you have grubs in the soil that chewed the roots?