Questing for Conifers in the Tropics

[Lumaca]

Hello everyone, I've always been fascinated with conifers in general, but the choices in the tropics are rather limited. So here's my stubborn attempt to chronicle the quest for a respectable conifer bonsai that needs no dormancy. These are all raw materials that I am just trying to keep alive so far. Would love to hear any inputs, especially since there aren't that many info about the cryptomeria.

Cryptomeria



Pinus Merkusii that just got off wires, that didn't really hold. Wires were biting in deep, but as soon as I took it off, the tree slowly loses shape.


Juniperus chinensis sitting very high in the pot because I was a dumbass and should have used a deeper pot. I removed about half of the roots and chickened out of removing more.


JBP Seedlings growing very slowly, about 8 months here I think.

 

[HorseloverFat]

Cryptomeria are fun... @cmeg1 , I believe does some neat stuff with them,..

That’s strange that, in your climate, conifers are a quest... it’s the opposite by me.

I would talk to @Clicio , or @Anthony ( )...

Also I believe Peter Chan features cryptomeria a few times.

Sorry that I cannot be of more help.

 

[Rivian]

Pinus caribea, Pinus tropicalis?

 

[HorseloverFat]

Pinus caribea, Pinus tropicalis?

NICE AVATAR!

 

[Clicio]

Thanks for calling me in, @HorseloverFat !

I am quite sure of:
JBP
JRP
Juniperus horizontalis
Juniperus Procumbens
Juniperus Chinensis (Shimpaku, Itoigawa, Kishu)
Hinoki Cypress

They all thrive in tropical climates.

 

[HorseloverFat]

Thanks for calling me in, @HorseloverFat !

I am quite sure of:
JBP
JRP
Juniperus horizontalis
Juniperus Procumbens
Juniperus Chinensis (Shimpaku, Itoigawa, Kishu)
Hinoki Cypress

They all thrive in tropical climates.

That’s actually pretty surprising to me... a decent chunk of those thrive by me too... and I live in an igloo, basically.

Thank you, as always, for the insight, Clicio.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

Pinus merkusii - the Sumatran pine is an interesting choice. Wikipedia in one place puts it in the same subgroup of pines as JBP and JRP. In the text it refers to it as being in the same subgroup as P. brutia and P. halepensis. It will be interesting to see how this one works out. The needles are listed as being up to 20 cm long (8 inches) which is long for bonsai, but not impossibly long. The needles are shorter than Ponderosa pine, which in USA gets used for bonsai often. (Ponderosa trunks are really cool if you can find 100 year old specimens, for this reason we ignore the long needles). The growth habits will tell you which group this pine really belongs to. If it easily reverts to juvenile needles every time you prune, it is in the Pineaster subgenus of Pines, which includes P. brutia. If it never or almost never reverts to juvenile growth after pruning, then it probably does indeed belong to the subgenus Pinus, along with the Japanese black pine.

Because Pinus merkusii is native to Sumatra, it should grow very well in Java. Using species native is excellent. Keep us posted as to how it does. I suspect it can be treated as a multifush pine, in which the candle pruning techniques used for Japanese black pine might be applied. But you will have to grow a few for a while to see how they respond. Remember the JBP candle pruning technique is for refining ramification on more mature trees. Your seedlings won't be ready for this technique for a few more years. You need to first get your branches and basic design set in place.

Keep us posted on Pinus merkusii, it is a unique pine that has little or no documented use in bonsai. Of course I am only familiar with the english language bonsai literature. It may be popular in Indonesia, but because I can not read Indonesian language, I am uninformed.

 

[HorseloverFat]

Pinus merkusii

COOOOOOL!

 

[palafr01]

How about podocarpus (ex buddhist pine)? Many are native to the tropics so they should do well for you. My location is just bit too north for year-round outside cultivation so I can't offer much advice, but the one I recently acquired has been doing well indoors so far. Hopefully others members here with more experience will chime in since they do make wonderful bonsai.

 

[Lumaca]

Thanks for calling me in, @HorseloverFat !

I am quite sure of:
JBP
JRP
Juniperus horizontalis
Juniperus Procumbens
Juniperus Chinensis (Shimpaku, Itoigawa, Kishu)
Hinoki Cypress

They all thrive in tropical climates.

Thank you, I didn't know Red Pines can survive hin the tropics. I will have to find seeds! I've heard that bald cypress thrive in singapore so I am thinking about giving it a shot too.

I have dabled with a few of the others, with plenty of casualties hahaha. I actually follow your jbp contest thread very closely to monitor my progress.

The other problem I actually have is that most nurseries are very loose with their naming here. We have a word "cemara" which refers to almost every conifer from junipers to pines. JBP seedlings go for outrageous prices here so I decided to grow my own.

 

[Lumaca]

Cryptomeria are fun... @cmeg1 , I believe does some neat stuff with them,..

That’s strange that, in your climate, conifers are a quest... it’s the opposite by me.

I would talk to @Clicio , or @Anthony ( )...

Also I believe Peter Chan features cryptomeria a few times.

Sorry that I cannot be of more help.

Hahaha yeah this is the land of a million ficus.

Yeah I was reading up on cryptomeria and found most info is about older more established plants. Apparently it requires a lot of cleaning and pinching.

Pinus caribea, Pinus tropicalis?

Hmmm... interesting... i think I have to start hunting for seeds!

 

[Lumaca]

Pinus merkusii - the Sumatran pine is an interesting choice. Wikipedia in one place puts it in the same subgroup of pines as JBP and JRP. In the text it refers to it as being in the same subgroup as P. brutia and P. halepensis. It will be interesting to see how this one works out. The needles are listed as being up to 20 cm long (8 inches) which is long for bonsai, but not impossibly long. The needles are shorter than Ponderosa pine, which in USA gets used for bonsai often. (Ponderosa trunks are really cool if you can find 100 year old specimens, for this reason we ignore the long needles). The growth habits will tell you which group this pine really belongs to. If it easily reverts to juvenile needles every time you prune, it is in the Pineaster subgenus of Pines, which includes P. brutia. If it never or almost never reverts to juvenile growth after pruning, then it probably does indeed belong to the subgenus Pinus, along with the Japanese black pine.

Because Pinus merkusii is native to Sumatra, it should grow very well in Java. Using species native is excellent. Keep us posted as to how it does. I suspect it can be treated as a multifush pine, in which the candle pruning techniques used for Japanese black pine might be applied. But you will have to grow a few for a while to see how they respond. Remember the JBP candle pruning technique is for refining ramification on more mature trees. Your seedlings won't be ready for this technique for a few more years. You need to first get your branches and basic design set in place.

Keep us posted on Pinus merkusii, it is a unique pine that has little or no documented use in bonsai. Of course I am only familiar with the english language bonsai literature. It may be popular in Indonesia, but because I can not read Indonesian language, I am uninformed.

How about podocarpus (ex buddhist pine)? Many are native to the tropics so they should do well for you. My location is just bit too north for year-round outside cultivation so I can't offer much advice, but the one I recently acquired has been doing well indoors so far. Hopefully others members here with more experience will chime in since they do make wonderful bonsai.

The most popular conifer in Indonesia would actually be podocarpus. I have this tray of rescued seedlings which my mom was keeping in a bowl without drainage holes and they survived there for almost 2 years.


All of these were in 1 bowl! But I don't think they look very coniferly hahaha.

Pinus merkusii, unfortunately I couldn't find any reading material or evidence of bonsai even in indonesian. The few that I found are of casuarina equisetifolia. So breaking new ground here! I am just following the agroforestry care guides.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

With the lack of "bonsai guidelines", I would generally follow the advice for Japanese Black Pines, JBP. BUT do keep track of when they send out flushes of new growth. Get a feel for its seasonal rhythms. This will help you plan your activities. You don't have a conventional winter, so the period when the tree seems to be dormant, without active growth you will have to use that as your marker for "winter". Do note if it grows more during the rainy seasons, or the dry seasons. Note its rhythms. Then you can plan when to prune, when to repot. When your tree is over 5 years old, and branches are more mature, then you will begin decandling. Your knowledge of the tree's rhythms will help you time when to decandle.

An interesting, and challenging project.

 

[Lumaca]

With the lack of "bonsai guidelines", I would generally follow the advice for Japanese Black Pines, JBP. BUT do keep track of when they send out flushes of new growth. Get a feel for its seasonal rhythms. This will help you plan your activities. You don't have a conventional winter, so the period when the tree seems to be dormant, without active growth you will have to use that as your marker for "winter". Do note if it grows more during the rainy seasons, or the dry seasons. Note its rhythms. Then you can plan when to prune, when to repot. When your tree is over 5 years old, and branches are more mature, then you will begin decandling. Your knowledge of the tree's rhythms will help you time when to decandle.

An interesting, and challenging project.

I couldn't resist the call of the scissors and snipped a couple of candles, and got these for a result:


Side shoots!

The top also got lopped off:


And as a bonus, i was rewarded for not plucking the old needles at the bottom, found these buds at the lowest needle:



I bought this tree as a messing about and wire practice tree and I'm having fun with it. My dumb ass actually used stainless steel wire on it and it was pretty rough! Aluminium actually feels like butter now...

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

Yes, keeping old needles in areas you want back budding is important. Well done.

 

[Lumaca]

Question: will sacrifice branch eat up the energy needed to produce the lower branches?

Asking because the top is looking great but the lower shoots I was counting on look very weak.

I'm reading bonsaitonight articles about sacrifice and now I'm kinda leaning to plucking some of the old needles up top hahaha.

 

[BrianBay9]

I know it's not the usual thought, but bald cypress is a conifer. I would imagine it would do great for you.

 

[Lumaca]

I know it's not the usual thought, but bald cypress is a conifer. I would imagine it would do great for you.

I am trying, but sadly no sign of germination yet!

 

[GGB]

Huangshan pine do very well in hot climates and are a traditional Chinese bonsai tree, tried and true.

 

[Lumaca]

Been a few busy months, so here's an update and looking for advice on sacrifice branches and distributing growth. The top is pretty much growing wild, with at least 7 shoots counted and some of them are showing candles again. Should I cut everything and leave 2? Should I leave the 2 most vigorous ones? Maybe @leohas any suggestions?