Question about Bonsai Today Stone Lantern Pine book

QuintinBonsai

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In the upper right hand corner of page 113 shows a potted pine. It says that the pine was started from seed 3 years ago. The first 2 years being field grown, and the 3rd year put into a training pot, and fed with a high nitrogen fertilizer every 2 weeks.

How was the grower able to achieve such fast growth in such a short time period? Can a pine grown in the ground bulk up that quickly after just 2 years?
 

Bonsai Nut

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I am familiar with this photo. I myself thought the same thing.

The closest I have seen to something approaching this is what George Muranaka has been able to accomplish with air layers. But a three-year air layer is not the same as three years from seed.
 

bonsaibp

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I've never been able to achieve it but I've seen my teacher Kenji Miyata get this kind of growth consistently. I don't know how he does it but he does. I do know he fertilizes the heck out of them.
I think you have to be a Japanese bonsai master to achieve this....:) j/k.
So the answer is yes.
 

QuintinBonsai

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Is this fertilizer that he use inorganic or organic, and how much is applied on a routine basis?
 

pwk5017

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Well now I am intrigued. What does the tree look like, I dont have the book.
 

bonsaibp

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Is this fertilizer that he use inorganic or organic, and how much is applied on a routine basis?

Both and I don't really know the schedule he uses. They are also planted in great soil and the top is allowed to grow wild. It's one of the few things that he hasn't really made clear to me or I'm just too dense to get it, which is probably the case.
You can talk to Fred Miahara at the SD club he knows the technique from Kenji.
 

pwk5017

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Oh, my bad! I do have this book. Yes, I know the pine now. I believe the ones that are 6-8 years old, but 3 years to get to that stage? How is a pine developing bark like that 3 years from seed!?! And lets not forget these are 3 years from a seedling cutting. I have been following this man's work for 5+ years for growing pines, and you essentially lose half a growing season by performing his technique. If that thing is 3 years old, has a 1.5"+ trunk, and is entering into branch refinement, then this gentleman has been dancing with the devil in the pale moonlight.

Do we know what zone he is growing in?
 

Dav4

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attachment.php
Here it is.

I have my doubts as to whether this tree really 3 years old. If you read the description under the picture, the tree was "started from seed 3 years ago" then "field grown for the first two years to thicken the trunk then placed in the training pot". I would think you'd grow out a seedling for a year or two in a pot and wire for shape before any field growing. Don't forget, this pine book is comprised of articles pulled from the Bonsai Today Magazine, and they were all translated from the original articles which were written in Japanese and there are probably more then a few errors in translation sprinkled through them.
 
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tmmason10

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I'm with Dave on this one. I would guess that it was grown from seed for three years, spent the next two in the ground, and is in its sixth year.
 

nathanbs

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There are definitely some valid arguments about the bark texture and if he indeed did this as a seedling cutting or not. I have to say though that i have 100 JBP not treated as seedling cuttings that are now on their 3rd winter and almost 4 years old and at least 20 or so of them are at least 1.5" thick but the bark and branching is not as mature
 

Adair M

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I agree with Dav4.

That said, Boon has some young pines that look similar in his grow bed. The sacrifice branches grew about 3 feet year! And put on an inch of girth.

I wish I had taken a pic of the grow bed when I first saw it 15 months ago, and could compare it to what it was now. Truly amazing. His grow bed appear to be bonsai soil.

I'll be there in a couple weeks. I'll ask how old the trees are.
 

sikadelic

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Is Bonsai Today no longer published? I tried finding a link to a new subscription today but all I found through google was an old link that no longer worked.
 

Eric Group

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attachment.php


I have my doubts as to whether this tree really 3 years old. If you read the description under the picture, the tree was "started from seed 3 years ago" then "field grown for the first two years to thicken the trunk then placed in the training pot". I would think you'd grow out a seedling for a year or two in a pot and wire for shape before any field growing. Don't forget, this pine book is comprised of articles pulled from the Bonsai Today Magazine, and they were all translated from the original articles which were written in Japanese and there are probably more then a few errors in translation sprinkled through them.

Also, consider that the scale on this tree is tough to figure... It says 10 inches- is that bottom of the pot to the top of the tree, or base of the tree to top of the tree? Is it a 10 inch pot? The answers to those questions can dramatically change the size of this tree and in such could change the width of the trunk at it's base dramatically! As You say, translations can be messed up, it is possible the author doesn't even know himself the size of the tree or the exact dimensions.. Without something in the frame to size it up against, this is a tough one to figure...

Regardless of the exact measurements, the message is clear- this is a young tree that LOOKS old and that is kind of what we are all going for when developing our own trees, right? I mean, unless you are collecting 200 year old Yamadori, you are generally probably working with what basically amount to saplings and Young shrubs usually and trying to style them to represent a real old tree... So probably rather than concerning ourselves with the exact amount of time it took them to produce these results, we should all be more focused on producing these results with our own trees... I want a copy of that book, but my money is focused on other things right now... And I already have a bunch of books!
 

mcpesq817

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I agree with Dav4 - highly doubtful that this is only 3 years old, even if it was grown in the ground for two years.

Frankly, I've been skeptical about some of the other reprinted Japanese articles in Bonsai Today. The growth rates of some of the trees in some articles seem to be a bit exaggerated.
 

Brian Van Fleet

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You can see 3 years' worth of growth on the already-developed branches. That tree can't be less than 8 years old.

Has to be something lost in translation, remember BT was comprised of excerpts from a Japanese publication, translated to English and printed in Spain, by translators who likely weren't bonsai practitioners.
 

Jason_mazzy

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I think you need to factor in a very heavy chop. it looks to me like the base was allowed to grow and standard candling methods were applied to the bottom branches and the rest of the tree just grew and grew. With a lot of attention and feeding it may have grown a ridiculous amount in short period. I would say 6 years old at least though with the maturity of the bark.
 
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