Question about my new gardenia

[willhopper]

I was hoping someone could take a look at this dwarf radicans gardenia I picked up today for a nice deal at a local nursery.

See the knob at the top? It’s not exactly a whorl, but I think it was a branch that got cut and healed over. It looks to cause a slight inverse taper. The trunk is pretty straight, but I feel like I can make this a nice formal upright or even a broom style.

Any recommendations regarding the knob? Can I trim it to bring the taper back in line? It has such ramification and small leaves. I really like this tree and that’s a pretty thick trunk for the price I paid.

Thanks.

 

[Victorim]

What's under the soil bud? What's the base like?

 

[willhopper]

It’s thicker than the trunk. I pulled away the soil and checked it out at the nursery. Some nice root movement.

 

[thumblessprimate1]

Maybe it's just me, but I think good brooms are displayed leafless. Gardenias I've seen are with leaves and with flowers or fruits. A broom gardenia, might just look like a topiary. I offer the idea of air layering as a possible path. Depending on how nice the branch structure actually is, you could decide where to do the layering to have a clump or an informal upright.

 

[willhopper]

Maybe it's just me, but I think good brooms are displayed leafless. Gardenias I've seen are with leaves and with flowers or fruits. A broom gardenia, might just look like a topiary. I offer the idea of air layering as a possible path. Depending on how nice the branch structure actually is, you could decide where to do the layering to have a clump or an informal upright.

You make a fine point about the broomstyle and topiary, thanks. Air layering is a great idea, too, and if I were to go that route, it would be my first. I’ve watched a few videos on that. I suppose a formal upright is on the table too.

 

[Victorim]

I dont mean to be an ass but this is the bonsai in the matrial as it is:

Minus any clever work of removing the bulge and making it a feature.

I`m all for long games and projects, just giving you a reality check here. This is what your working on. Think about it.

 

[milehigh_7]

What's under the soil bud? What's the base like?

Always a good question!

 

[willhopper]

I dont mean to be an ass but this is the bonsai in the matrial as it is:
View attachment 173172
Minus any clever work of removing the bulge and making it a feature.

I`m all for long games and projects, just giving you a reality check here. This is what your working on. Think about it.

Matrial?

 

[Victorim]

Material even.

 

[willhopper]

The knob is above what you highlighted. The portion you showed is below that, and has slight movement. The thickness of the trunk is equal and slightly curving. I could cut the knob, carve it, hollow it out. No?

 

[Victorim]

What i`m saying is the knob is inconsequential at the moment until you develop the tree that is there. Look at the pic, this is the tree in there.. how can you you build the tree from here? this is your starting point.

 

[milehigh_7]

I'm with the other 2. I'm a chop low and replant at an angle kind of person. It's actually amazing what just a different planting angle will do. I have three little ones that I am doing a similar thing with and I think you will be happier in the long run with trunk movement.

 

[Stan Kengai]

Do not chop, unless you like regular non-dwarf gardenia. The "knob" is below the graft on the root stock. Note the difference in bark character and the abrupt change in trunk thickness. You could try to air layer the top off, but not much can be done about the bulge otherwise. Something to look out for in the future.

 

[willhopper]

Do not chop, unless you like regular non-dwarf gardenia. The "knob" is below the graft on the root stock. Note the difference in bark character and the abrupt change in trunk thickness. You could try to air layer the top off, but not much can be done about the bulge otherwise. Something to look out for in the future.

OK, so are you saying I can’t carve, bore or even cut that knob? I had no plans to chop this tree.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

I believe what Stan is saying is that this gardenia was created by grafting. Often done for landscape stock. Below the knob is the understock, a single flowered variety chosen for hardiness and disease resistance. Flowers are likely inferior, small with only 6 petals, and the understock likely is a reluctant to bloom and reluctant to back bud variety. Good traits for understock. The part above the knob is the scion. This is the named variety with superior flowers and all the best you want from a gardenia.

Gardenias will root from cuttings & or air layers, if you really want to bonsai this tree, you have to root the top off the understock. My recommendation would be to just plant it as a landscape shrub and look for a different gardenia to use for bonsai. This is not good bonsai material.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

For the Florida and Georgia markets, most gardenias are grafted for better disease resistance. The house plant producers in Florida do produce non grafted gardenias for the Florist's trade. They get shipped north to us Yankee city folk. You probably have to seek out gardenias from the house plant farms. I know there's dozens of them near Apopka.

 

[willhopper]

OK, we will probably put it in our landscaping.

 

[GrimLore]

OK, so are you saying I can’t carve, bore or even cut that knob?

Grind the "knob" off, smooth to the trunk. Work on the top as you see fit - honest I don't see a reason not to enjoy it and work it as is... Hell of a lot more interesting then putting it in the landscape

Grimmy

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

Grind the "knob" off, smooth to the trunk. Work on the top as you see fit - honest I don't see a reason not to enjoy it and work it as is... Hell of a lot more interesting then putting it in the landscape

Grimmy

Actually Grimmy's solution is good too. We often get hung up on heading towards Kofuku-ten exhibition standards, when realistically, at best making a tree that is pleasant to look at is more than good enough.

I know I have not created any trees that are any better than average compared to my fellow Milwaukee Bonsai Society members. I'm lucky to be considered a "C+" bonsai student compared to them. So getting lost in details of idealized perfection is the enemy of getting something done, that will be nice, even with minor flaws.

 

[willhopper]

Well, this was the reason I got it, and it was really cheap. I figured, since I’m a novice, I could use this tree for experience. I could wire, prune, repot and even maybe carve this tree. It will be beautiful when I’m done because it has a lot of ramification, small leaves and it flowers. It is healthy as hell. I’m taking it to my club tomorrow and asking for their input too. Thanks everyone.