Question on douglas fir needle life cycle and ferts

[One First Matter All]

Hi there,

I recently acquired a Douglas fir tree. I am curious to know about the life cycle of needles on a Doug. fir. I have read that the needles typically last 6-8 years. However, I seem unable to find much other information on their needles. Bonsai enthusiasts seems to talk a lot about pine needles, pine needle life cycle, pine needle reduction, etc. Are there similar resources for Doug. firs?

I am also interested in information about fertilizing Doug. firs. Are particular ferts better than others? Do folks follow a particular fert regimen, as many do with pines (for instance, reducing fert during the growing season to keep needles shorter)?

It's possible I have overlooked some resources available on this site, so feel free to redirect me if that's the case.

Thanks for any help!

 

[0soyoung]

Needles, I think, last about 3 years. That is, needles produced in the spring of this year (2021) are pretty much shot and will likely be dropping in the fall of 2024). They will produce two flushes each year with no effort on your part, other than keeping them well watered. Most budding is on new growth, to a lesser extent on older growth, and least on bare wood. They are similar to spruce in that a twig without a bud on the tip will inevitably die back to a bud (or existing node).

I use Osmocote Plus to fertilize mine. Many other bonsai-ists prefer organic ferts. The type or brand doesn't matter.

I believe there is some info on bonsai techniques available in the Mirai Live archives, but you will have to subscribe to Mirai Live to access it.

 

[Shogun610]

3 y.o needles dropping currently on a Doug for in my possession. The new growth needles all have buds , and some buds are on older growth. Pinching is done in spring (May) to keep it from elongating after post flush hardening,and to allow for dormant buds to appear in fall. If you miss that window you’ll be waiting a whole growing season to get dormant bud to show up….. if I remember correctly from Mirai.

You can only prune back on a branch that has buds further down or else the branch will die off.

They like to have foliage misted and soil moist but not drenching wet.
I fertilize weekly with fish emulsion.

 

[Colorado]

I use Biogold and liquid fish & seaweed emulsion for fertilizing Doug fir.

I think fert timing depends on what you’re trying to do. If you are growing out, then I’d just fertilize heavily, all growing season, nothing special. If refining, I might hold off on the Biogold until after the first flush hardens off.

Let’s see your Doug fir and we can provide more exact fert advice.

 

[One First Matter All]

I use Biogold and liquid fish & seaweed emulsion for fertilizing Doug fir.

I think fert timing depends on what you’re trying to do. If you are growing out, then I’d just fertilize heavily, all growing season, nothing special. If refining, I might hold off on the Biogold until after the first flush hardens off.

Let’s see your Doug fir and we can provide more exact fert advice.

It’s just a prebonsai twin trunk right now, so my plan is to induce some backbudding to fill it out some, while also building a bit more girth in the trunk (I realize that will take a while). I can post a photo when I get home.

 

[One First Matter All]

Here’s an image.

 

[Flowerhouse]

I captured a Doug Fir in Colorado 8-9 years ago and moved it to my yard in Wyoming. It struggled the first year and there were a few needles lost. Every needle it has grown since then is still in place. Even the needles on the trunk are still there from 4 years ago, and it is growing rapidly. I captured another little Dougie in the same area earlier this summer and it has a scattering of brown needles. It is planted in and Anderson flat. Judging from the escape roots it is poised to grow well next summer.

 

[Carol 83]

I captured a Doug Fir

I captured another little Dougie

Were they running from you?

 

[One First Matter All]

I captured a Doug Fir in Colorado 8-9 years ago and moved it to my yard in Wyoming. It struggled the first year and there were a few needles lost. Every needle it has grown since then is still in place. Even the needles on the trunk are still there from 4 years ago, and it is growing rapidly. I captured another little Dougie in the same area earlier this summer and it has a scattering of brown needles. It is planted in and Anderson flat. Judging from the escape roots it is poised to grow well next summer.

See, that's interesting because I also read that the needles will last 6-8 years. I was surprised to hear from the previous respondents that their Doug. fir needles only last 3 years. I wonder what explains such wide ranges in needle longevity.

 

[Flowerhouse]

Were they running from you?

Not running as much as hiding lol. The area is all Ponderosa, Pinyon, with 1 RMJ, 2 tiny Aspen groups, Quercus gambelii in one area, 1 Bristlecone. There is a nice tall Doug fir, a younger one may 20 feet tall. The little Doug firs are very stealthy.

 

[Carol 83]

Not running as much as hiding lol. The area is all Ponderosa, Pinyon, with 1 RMJ, 2 tiny Aspen groups, Quercus gambelii in one area, 1 Bristlecone. There is a nice tall Doug fir, a younger one may 20 feet tall. The little Doug firs are very stealthy.

I was just teasing, looking forward to a couple days of vacation.

 

[Colorado]

Here’s an image.

View attachment 402873

This looks great! Yeah I would just order some Biogold and Neptune’s Harvest Fish and Seaweed Liquid and you’ll be all set for next year.

 

[Mr.Dr.K]

I captured a Doug Fir in Colorado 8-9 years ago and moved it to my yard in Wyoming. It struggled the first year and there were a few needles lost. Every needle it has grown since then is still in place. Even the needles on the trunk are still there from 4 years ago, and it is growing rapidly. I captured another little Dougie in the same area earlier this summer and it has a scattering of brown needles. It is planted in and Anderson flat. Judging from the escape roots it is poised to grow well next summer.

I've been thinking about walking my girlfriends property and digging-up a Douglas or Hemlock—both are plentiful here, especially the iconic Doug Fir. I wonder how well they do with aggressive root-prooning. I lack any experience with conifer. I'd like to give it a shot, though.

 

[ghues]

Here’s an image.

View attachment 402873

The needles look blunt on the ends and looks more like a balsam?

 

[August44]

I don't know Balsam Firs but I agree...does not look like a Doug Fir to me either.

 

[One First Matter All]

I don't know Balsam Firs but I agree...does not look like a Doug Fir to me either.

Believe it's a Rocky Mountain Douglas Fir. If I see a pine cone growing erect instead of pendulous, I'll let you know.

 

[Shogun610]

The Doug for I have pretty much shed all it’s needles except for on the tips. I’m going to chalk it up to my climate is too hot for it , so I’m focusing on native spruce and pines for conifer wise, its unfortunate, but can’t risk time and resources to “try it again”

 

[August44]

The Doug for I have pretty much shed all it’s needles except for on the tips. I’m going to chalk it up to my climate is too hot for it , so I’m focusing on native spruce and pines for conifer wise, its unfortunate, but can’t risk time and resources to “try it again”

Can't believe it was to hot as I live in a zone 5-6 and they grow like weeds here. Do you protect your trees during the high heat and the cold with winds?

I don't think it is a Doug Fir, most likely a Subalpine fir.

 

[River's Edge]

See, that's interesting because I also read that the needles will last 6-8 years. I was surprised to hear from the previous respondents that their Doug. fir needles only last 3 years. I wonder what explains such wide ranges in needle longevity.

Condition of the tree and care routine would be my guess. When a tree is weak or struggling it often sheds needles prematurely.

 

[Potawatomi13]

Would agree tree is not Douglas Fir but some true Fir. Round needle ends, Appearance of new sprouts not right for Douglas Fir.