Question on Peter Chans Youtube Air Layering Video

RobertB

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At the end of the video you see Mr Chan stick the rotted stock in more sphagnum moss within a pot and place in a small tray of water, roughly a couple inches.

Has anyone ever tried this? I'm just wondering how long you are supposed to leave it there (in the pot of sphagnum moss and in tray of water? I would assume its until the next growing season.

I am planning to attempt a good bit of air layers in late spring of 2018 and was considering using this method as I have read that moss can be difficult to get out of the roots when potting the Air Layering.

Any help or comments would be much appreciated.

I'm planning to layer a large podocarpus trunk, probable 2-3" in diameter, about 10 Japanese maple samples, ranging from 1/2" to 1-1/2" and a weeping yupon holly, probably about 2-3" diameter.

Im in zone 8, close to zone 9.
 

BrianBay9

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I've used moss or bonsai soil. Both work. The moss is easier to keep where you want it when you're layering a yard tree with difficult access. Agree with Mike on benefits of using bonsai soil after separation. Even when using moss I've not potted up in MORE moss after separation. Generally the idea is to get it out of the pot as soon as the roots are sturdy enough to mess with.
 

RobertB

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Ive read this also about waiting a little longer on the air layer, giving the roots some additional time to harden. Also severing 8 weeks or so before the first expected frost. there are many years we don't even get a real frost here.

Im just a little unclear as to what "roots sturdy enough to mess with" actually means.
 

RobertB

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when you use bonsai soil, do you use a pot and I would assume you have to water, or do enclose with some sort of plastic. Hell, maybe a coke plastic 2L bottle that's been modified some. Then at least you could see the roots. My issue with the pot and soil is it would be hard to tell when its safe to separate unless you know the species and have done it before.

Ive heard mixed results with bonsai soil vs moss for air layering and it sounds like moss yields greater success rate. don't want to start a debate but interested in both methods.
 

BrianBay9

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Good pic of sturdy roots. Early on they are fleshy looking and easily break off. Then they get more numerous, more fibrous, but still can pull out with the moss. Then they start looking like Mike's pic, almost woody in their own rooty kind of way. The time it takes to go through that progression depends on the species of tree, and I suspect your climate.
 

Leo in N E Illinois

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I personally have had trouble with hanging pots of bonsai mix on relatively slender trunks, and then keeping the bonsai mix evenly moist. I tend to dry it out hard. Sphagnum is easier to keep moist during the layering process. But I do agree, if you can get a stable set up with bonsai mix hanging in the tree, it does eliminate a 2 or 3 year process of removing the moss from the root ball.
 

RobertB

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planning a fairly large air layer on a podocarpus this spring. Maybe i can try the bonsai soil container on this. I bought this on clearance a few weeks ago for 20$. Shooting for 2 trees out of.

IMG_1697.jpg IMG_1699.jpg
 

drew33998

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My rate is higher with moss. But it is a PITA to get out of the roots. I started chopping it up and mixing with permits. At least I only did that to this last layer on a juniper. It's got roots
 

Leo in N E Illinois

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I'm not familiar with how well Podocarpus roots, layers or back buds. You have a nice thick trunk, but no foliage anywhere close to the trunk. Trunk and branches are all dead arrow straight.

If they behave more like a yew, given time, you can create something. If they are reluctant to back bud, this will be nothing but frustration.

In the future look for an interesting feature in the first few inches of trunk. If it is dead straight, pass on it.
 

RobertB

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I am looking to make a formal upright at some point with some nice deadwood. They back bud very well. I just went ahead and put this one in the ground yesterday. I am only planning to take the top half off at some point to attempt a bonsai with, the lower will turn into a yardsai.
 

Hack Yeah!

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I'm completely new and tried an air layer on a Japanese maple this year. I only used Pete Moss packed in a plastic sleeve. The thing rooted like crazy in 1 month.22618.jpeg
 

Bonsai Nut

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I have only ever used sphagnum moss prior to this year. This year I tried three layers with bonsai soil and three with sphagnum. The layers with bonsai soil included two in containers on trunks and one a ground layer where I put a mesh ring around the trunk and filled it with bonsai soil. All three bonsai soil layers failed. All three sphagnum layers succeeded. The layers with bonsai soil that failed, I removed and tried a second time using sphagnum moss. One of the three succeeded... but two failed a second time. However I was now getting into mid-summer and it was not the best layering season here.

Not sure what conclusions (if any) to draw from my experience since there were many other variables in play. I agree with the issues of sphagnum moss sticking into the roots, but I just pot up the new tree in bonsai mix (sphagnum moss and all) and the moss is gone in a year or two.
 

RobertB

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That is awesome! How did the rest of the process go? What about severing, cleaning out the roots, potting, is it still alive? Did it yield a decent nebari?
 

drew33998

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I have only ever used sphagnum moss prior to this year. This year I tried three layers with bonsai soil and three with sphagnum. The layers with bonsai soil included two in containers on trunks and one a ground layer where I put a mesh ring around the trunk and filled it with bonsai soil. All three bonsai soil layers failed. All three sphagnum layers succeeded. The layers with bonsai soil that failed, I removed and tried a second time using sphagnum moss. One of the three succeeded... but two failed a second time. However I was now getting into mid-summer and it was not the best layering season here.

Not sure what conclusions (if any) to draw from my experience since there were many other variables in play. I agree with the issues of sphagnum moss sticking into the roots, but I just pot up the new tree in bonsai mix (sphagnum moss and all) and the moss is gone in a year or two.
I did that on a crab apple. It's struggling bc the sphagnum stays too wet.
 

drew33998

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planning a fairly large air layer on a podocarpus this spring. Maybe i can try the bonsai soil container on this. I bought this on clearance a few weeks ago for 20$. Shooting for 2 trees out of.

View attachment 165795 View attachment 165796
Why not try to keep that long sinewy trunk and do something with it? I will say I had one and the foliage length was a problem always. You can try to graft another type of yew onto it.
 
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