Questions about JM Cultivars

[augustine]

Hello All,

I have 2 regular Acer p (green) growing out and they are doing well. Would like to add to my collection.

This year I can get the following varieties:

Acer p. - small leaf/small seed
Kiyo Hime
Koto Hime
Yuri Hime

Could you offer any comments about the listed cultivars such as hardiness, potential problems, rate of growth, etc.? Are any esp. tough to grow?

(I am able to offer morning sun and afternoon shade and have good water.)

Thank you.

Best regards,

Augustine
Central MD - 7a

 

[0soyoung]

All __ hime are dwarfs and slower growing. Kiyo hime is a bonsai favorite even though it won't be on its own roots (IIRC, Walter Pall has pics of a Kiyo hime bonsai).

Climate-wise, all JMs are about the same. Protection from breezes/wind is the most important factor in the growing season. If given this protection, virtually all can be grown in full sun, even though partial shade is generally better (JMs are an under-canopy forest tree in nature).

 

[lordy]

I have had a koto hime in the ground for approx 6-7 years. It started about pencil thin, about 9" tall. Now it is perhaps cigar sized diameter, maybe 12" tall but LOADED with absolutely tiny leaves. There is a popcicle stick there for size reference. Branching is not much. I hope to get this one into a pot this year.

 

[augustine]

Lordy,

Thank you, that is a beautiful maple!

Best,

Augustine
Central MD - 7a

 

[Martin Sweeney]

Augustine,

I have never grown the "_Hime" cultivars, but my understanding is that the apices of the "_Hime" cultivars are weaker than the bases, sort of like azaleas. You know, basal dominant. So, you need to be careful that you prune accordingly.

Regards,
Martin

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Kiyohime grow out, kotohime grow up. Koto also has curly leaves like shishigashira, but grows faster.

More important than the cultivar, for bonsai purposes, is to find an acceptable graft.

 

[Adair M]

To add to Brian's post: Either find an acceptable graft, or plan to airlayer it once you have an acceptable trunk.

 

[William N. Valavanis]

I did not know that the dwarf Japanese maples, you call "Hime" will not grow on their own roots. Nobody told me that 40 years ago when I rooted tens of thousands of them!

When can I expect the following two maples, Kiyo Hime and Koto Hime to die? I want to prepare for their deaths.... I'd like to prepare and root some more in preparation.

Bill


Kiyo Hime Japanese maple I rooted in 1970s. When can I expect it to die?


Koto Hime Japanese maple also rooted in the 1970s. Is this tree next to go?

 

[rockm]

As Bill points out, Grafts are done to reproduce a specific genetic trait (i.e. crinkly leaves, pink leaves, stems, rough bark,etc), not really because they're weak on their own roots. Seeds of a cultivar with a particular trait won't reliably produce seedlings with the same quirks, so cloning (cuttings) or grafting onto more common root stock is used to get them.

 

[0soyoung]

I did not know that the dwarf Japanese maples, you call "Hime" will not grow on their own roots. Nobody told me that 40 years ago when I rooted tens of thousands of them!

Bill

View attachment 30692
Kiyo Hime Japanese maple I rooted in 1970s. When can I expect it to die?

View attachment 30693
Koto Hime Japanese maple also rooted in the 1970s. Is this tree next to go?

Beautiful trees, Bill. And, I know from books that they are not the only stunning JM bonsai you've produced.

So what set you off on this little rant? I don't see any comment in this thread saying, ' "Hime" will not grow on their own roots.'

 

[Poink88]

I don't see any comment in this thread saying, ' "Hime" will not grow on their own roots.'

Maybe this?

Kiyo hime is a bonsai favorite even though it won't be on its own roots

 

[discusmike]

I have koto,n the leaves are not crinkled,wondering if its kiyo.they were sold as goshin kotohime

 

[discusmike]

And i have all my cultivators on there own roots,no problems,just be careful in early spring with freezes.

 

[0soyoung]

Kiyo hime is a bonsai favorite even though it won't be on its own roots (IIRC, Walter Pall has pics of a Kiyo hime bonsai).

Maybe this?

I see. I thought I had written in english but apparently not. IMHO '... won't be on its own roots ...' is equivalent in meaning to Brian Van Fleet's, "More important than the cultivar, for bonsai purposes, is to find an acceptable graft."


Bill,

Do you sell ungrafted "Hime" JMs? I know of no other grower/nursery selling ungrafted "Hime" and ungrafted JMs, in general, for that matter.

 

[augustine]

Have a look at Bill Valavanis' current catalog on InternationalBonsai.com" and Brent's catalog at EvergreenGardenWorks.com. They are offering cutting grown dwarf maple cultivars.

Thank you.

Best,

Augustine
Central MD - 7a

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

I see. I thought I had written in english but apparently not. IMHO '... won't be on its own roots ...' is equivalent in meaning to Brian Van Fleet's, "More important than the cultivar, for bonsai purposes, is to find an acceptable graft."

Hey now, I didn't say they won't be on their own roots, just that acceptable grafts are important. J. maples and shimpakus are about the only thing I can root!

 

[small trees]

It's cool to see Mr. Valavanis post in here. I plan on buying a few JM seedlings from him sometime in the future so I can say I have the direct clone/offspring of the original dwarf.

 

[63pmp]

I've found the dwarf J maples to be very brittle, just brushing by them seems to break small branches.

I thought the comments about J maples being an understory plant a little strange, as I had seen pictures of Japanese hills covered in red and yellow maple leaves in autumn. Although my Japanese is non existent I did some research into Japanese maples in their native landscape.

While they start off as under story trees, they do grow to about 14 meters in height and do eventually form canopy trees. Importantly, average yearly temperature (I know its very general) is about 10 C. Soil temperatures rarely exceed 16 C.

I think how much sun they need depends very much on where you live.

Regards

Paul

 

[MACH5]

I've found the dwarf J maples to be very brittle, just brushing by them seems to break small branches.

I thought the comments about J maples being an understory plant a little strange, as I had seen pictures of Japanese hills covered in red and yellow maple leaves in autumn. Although my Japanese is non existent I did some research into Japanese maples in their native landscape.

While they start off as under story trees, they do grow to about 14 meters in height and do eventually form canopy trees. Importantly, average yearly temperature (I know its very general) is about 10 C. Soil temperatures rarely exceed 16 C.

I think how much sun they need depends very much on where you live.

Regards

Paul

My experience has been similar. They are particularly brittle in early Spring and less so during the rest of the year at least for me.

Maples do well living under the canopy of other trees. They're quite content under shade. Yes they certainly can outgrow everything around them and eventually receive full sunlight. BUT... big difference here is these are trees growing in open ground whereas bonsai grow in very limited space vastly changing their growing environment.

 

[augustine]

Dear 63 and Mach,

Great info. So nice to find out about the brittle nature here rather than in the garden after breaking branches. Thanks very much to you and everyone else.

Best,

Augustine
Central MD 7a