Questions with Scots Pine "Jeremy"

[PierreR]

I have a thread in "New to Bonsai" and was thinking I might ask in the thread specifically for the tree species.
I just purchased this guy from my local nursery. It has a load of dense needles, lots of new growth, trunk is 2 1/2" dia minimum. My worry is it only has needles around the tips of the branches, next to none in the interior. Two large opposing low branches... I really like the short compact needles, but not sure what to make of its structure...

Questions...
Am I too late to repot this one in a more suitable soil? What blend is recommended? I have sharp grit, Akadama, worm castings (compost), can probably get composted bark...maybe.
Feeding/fertilizing. Is a generic evergreen fertilizer ok to use, or should I look for something different. I have a water soluble 30-10-10 blended for evergreens/cedars.
I believe if I can repot, that is all I do with it this year. Just let it grow.

I have been to anxious in the past, and didn't do my trees any favors. I also haven't spent this much on new stock, and want to be certain, before I do anything to them.

Thanks in advance.

 

[discusmike]

Definently don't repot now.

 

[Adair M]

Ok, this tree exhibits all the problems of buying a tree that was grown to be a landscape shrub. No interior foliage, multiple large branches coming in whorls, etc.

Will it back bud? Who knows? Maybe it will if the interior can get some sunlight.

I'm thinking that the center trunk, the largest one, needs to come out. This will open up the canopy considerably! And let light in. Which may stimulate back budding.

Yes, it will make it pretty ugly for a while.
I wouldn't do anything else. Just remove the center trunk, wait and see what happens. If you try to remove too much all at once, it can shock and kill the tree.

Personally, I don't buy this kind of stock. I used to. But now I'll buy stock that's been purposely grown for bonsai rather than landscaping.

 

[M. Frary]

If it really needs to be repotted you can do it startin sometime after the second or third week in June. Just cut the bottom third off of the root ball. Then a couple slices in towards the trunk in the remaining root ball. Plant in a collander. Leave for at least a year.
These trees will back bud profusely. With the right techniques. Cut the new shoots back to a couple of needles after they extend but before they harden off. Usually after July 4th but before August 15th here.

 

[PierreR]

Thanks Mike!

So I found out this tree is a "pinus sylvestris"

 

[Vance Wood]

Thanks Mike!

So I found out this tree is a "pinus sylvestris"

That is a Scots Pine and you can treat them just like Mugo Pines.

 

[Vance Wood]

Befor you do anything else to this tree could you do us and yourself a favor? Remove the tree from the nursery container and gently without tearing into the soil or roots remove the crude and crap off the soil surface so that the base of the tree can be seen. Please photo the tree from the same angles you did previously, this time without the pot.

 

[watchndsky]

If it really needs to be repotted you can do it startin sometime after the second or third week in June. Just cut the bottom third off of the root ball. Then a couple slices in towards the trunk in the remaining root ball.

does this apply to mature trees as well as trees in development? the few repots i have done of mine were in feb - this was way before i had read some of vance's posts regarding summer repotting. however, i dont recall seeing a mention of the tree's "stage" mentioned in the posts.

vance - do you recommend repot (with 1/3 of roots worked) during the summer for mature scots?

 

[PierreR]

Befor you do anything else to this tree could you do us and yourself a favor? Remove the tree from the nursery container and gently without tearing into the soil or roots remove the crude and crap off the soil surface so that the base of the tree can be seen. Please photo the tree from the same angles you did previously, this time without the pot.

I will do it tomorrow, weather permitting.

 

[Vance Wood]

does this apply to mature trees as well as trees in development? the few repots i have done of mine were in feb - this was way before i had read some of vance's posts regarding summer repotting. however, i dont recall seeing a mention of the tree's "stage" mentioned in the posts.

vance - do you recommend repot (with 1/3 of roots worked) during the summer for mature scots?

Yes as long as the tree is healthy.

 

[PierreR]

Befor you do anything else to this tree could you do us and yourself a favor? Remove the tree from the nursery container and gently without tearing into the soil or roots remove the crude and crap off the soil surface so that the base of the tree can be seen. Please photo the tree from the same angles you did previously, this time without the pot.

Here they are... I removed the looser dirt, but didn't dig into, or cut any roots.

 

[Vance Wood]

You have to start thinking about opening up the interior of the tree. One of the major branches is going to have to be removed. Your last two photos shows a good and possible trunk line. You should consider how to exploit this trait. I suspect that this Scots belongs to a landscape cultivar. Do you have the original tag that went on the tree?

 

[Adair M]

If you've ever wondered how these trees are managed by the grower, check out this video. It shows how they prune boxwood in the ground. I've also seen them do it on a line of boxwood in nursery cans.

 

[Vance Wood]

Thanks for posting that. It would not surprise me that this is the way the majority of commersial Mugos and Scots Pines are treated. You must remember you have to first start with a tree that will tolerate and prosper under this kind of treatment. Scots and Mugo will indeed tolerate this treatment and the nursery lots are evidence of it. That is what make Mugos so difficult and vilified in some people's eyes. It makes them difficult to contemplate a bonsai from material treated like this.

 

[M. Frary]

But being able to be treated this way seems like they would be perfect for bonsai. They only do this to material that back buds well. Kind of along the lines of the hedge trimming method of producing ramification.

 

[Vance Wood]

You're right that's why both Mugos and Scots make great bonsai. They respond to this kind of mistreatment that favors bonsai.

 

[PierreR]

You have to start thinking about opening up the interior of the tree. One of the major branches is going to have to be removed. Your last two photos shows a good and possible trunk line. You should consider how to exploit this trait. I suspect that this Scots belongs to a landscape cultivar. Do you have the original tag that went on the tree?

Vance, I do have the original tag, but the only info on it is the Latin name for the tree, and that it is a product of Oregon.

Before I do any cutting on this gal, (new little pink cones are showing with the candles) I want to take a little video of it as it rotates. Get a couple opinions. If I understand form, the branch on the outside of the bend (last photo) is preferred as a keeper, just due to location alone.

The first picture in post #11 shows how it forks abruptly a short distance from the trunk. So I am hoping some video imagery will help. The lower branch that gets removed... Would it be a good candidate to jin? When is the best time to prune/wire? I think doing it in stages may be less stressful. Trim and wire some, then next year do some more? How well do these bend? By that are they brittle? The upper branches seem pliable enough. Sorry for all the questions, but I would rather go slow, then kill these trees...

 

[Vance Wood]

Everything you cut becomes a candidate for jin. The video will help a lot. You can see a lot of things in a video you cannot understand from the 2 Dimensional photograph.

 

[Adair M]

I posted the video as it shows how the trees are shaped by the growers before they make it to the garden centers and big box stores.

Their goal is to make the trees into shrubs. All they want is a round profile.

Of course, what we want for bonsai is foliage close to yhe trunk. Unfortunately, the shrub treatment tends to shade out all interior foliage.

It's not the species, Mugo, that's the problem, it's the way they're grown at the nursery.

Places like Telperion Farms that grow stock in the ground specifically for bonsai pyoduce wonderful rough stock.

 

[Adair M]

Here's how they do it with potted plants.