Quince question

[shinmai]

I have six or seven Japanese quince, all acquired in June from the clearance pallet at a Home Depot. All are a cultivar named ‘Texas Scarlet’. All are doing well after repotting and substantial size reduction.
One little rascal—the one of the bunch with zero hope of ever being a bonsai—has been blooming intermittently since September. My question has to do with blossom color.
When this one bloomed the first time in September it was almost a stretch to call them red—hardly the vivid shade one sees in a Monrovia ad, for example. Subsequent blossoms have been budding as solid white, and opening to a pale salmon color.
My question is this: is there a nutritional or mineral element that affects the intensity of blossom color? Just as an example, I’m mindful of how one can turn hydrangeas pink or blue depending on the pH of the soil.

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

Yes there are elements that affect that color. I know aluminium and iron works for some, but I'm unaware how it affects quince, if at all.

 

[Cadillactaste]

Light has a lot to do with the flower color. I used to have a Texas scarlet. It had the prettiest of salmon color when I bought it. I thought it was tagged wrong. But...the nursery stated it was because it had low light. (Brought into the shop because of the cold temps in Ohio and wasn't getting adequate lighting.) When summer rolled around and my tree went into the sun...it had lovely bold red blooms.

 

[Clicio]

Light has a lot to do with the flower color. I used to have a Texas scarlet. It had the prettiest of salmon color when I bought it. I thought it was tagged wrong. But...the nursery stated it was because it had low light. (Brought into the shop because of the cold temps in Ohio and wasn't getting adequate lighting.) When summer rolled around and my tree went into the sun...it had lovely bold red blooms.

Darlene, what a wonderful color combination, the pot and the flowers! Beautiful.

 

[Cadillactaste]

Darlene, what a wonderful color combination, the pot and the flowers! Beautiful.

Thanks...Sadly, this died last spring. Ones think it may have had some weird pathogen in the soil. It was so sad to just see it die...I eventually just got rid of the entire tree...pot and all. Got it back in 2016...So two years on the bench. Sucked. Adding a Toyo-Nishiki from Martin here on the forum come spring. I pray for a better outcome. Color of blooms when I bought it. Loved that shade...But it was indeed a Texas Scarlet.

 

[Mike Hennigan]

Thanks...Sadly, this died last spring. Ones think it may have had some weird pathogen in the soil. It was so sad to just see it die...I eventually just got rid of the entire tree...pot and all. Got it back in 2016...So two years on the bench. Sucked. Adding a Toyo-Nishiki from Martin here on the forum come spring. I pray for a better outcome. Color of blooms when I bought it. Loved that shade...But it was indeed a Texas Scarlet.

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Hey I'm curious if you repotted the tree in the springtime and then noticed it was sick after this? I've heard that spring repotting of quince can lead to disease issues, or nematode infestations or something? I'm digging a massive old Japanese quince clump out of the landscape this spring, hoping I don't get killer nematodes.

 

[Cadillactaste]

Hey I'm curious if you repotted the tree in the springtime and then noticed it was sick after this? I've heard that spring repotting of quince can lead to disease issues, or nematode infestations or something? I'm digging a massive old Japanese quince clump out of the landscape this spring, hoping I don't get killer nematodes.

No, it had not been recently repotted. Not since I purchased it back in 2016. My thread...many felt it was something in the soil that attacked it. I had not done a full bareroot, so possible.

 

[River's Edge]

Hey I'm curious if you repotted the tree in the springtime and then noticed it was sick after this? I've heard that spring repotting of quince can lead to disease issues, or nematode infestations or something? I'm digging a massive old Japanese quince clump out of the landscape this spring, hoping I don't get killer nematodes.

After several disappointing growth seasons with Chinese Quince and the Japanese dwarf chojubai as well. I switched to fall repotting and more shaded locations. Since then, the growth and health issues have improved dramatically.
I did not change the soil components or watering program. In this case i was not dealing with nematodes, however the plants appeared to experience difficulty with spring repotting and smaller pots. Now they appear to be the vigorous growers that they are reputed to be. Also the yellow portions of the leaves have disappeared, replaced with vibrant green. The only other change was to larger and deeper pots for root formation. My cuttings have also improved with larger containers and deeper soil.
I agree that the amount of light affects the color intensity of the flowers and the foliage.

 

[Cadillactaste]

After several disappointing growth seasons with Chinese Quince and the Japanese dwarf chojubai as well. I switched to fall repotting and more shaded locations. Since then, the growth and health issues have improved dramatically.
I did not change the soil components or watering program. In this case i was not dealing with nematodes, however the plants appeared to experience difficulty with spring repotting and smaller pots. Now they appear to be the vigorous growers that they are reputed to be. Also the yellow portions of the leaves have disappeared, replaced with vibrant green. The only other change was to larger and deeper pots for root formation. My cuttings have also improved with larger containers and deeper soil.
I agree that the amount of light affects the color intensity of the flowers and the foliage.

Good points that I will add to my notes.

Frank, what time frame when you say Fall...Early fall or mid fall for those repots?

 

[River's Edge]

No, it had not been recently repotted. Not since I purchased it back in 2016. My thread...many felt it was something in the soil that attacked it. I had not done a full bareroot, so possible.

One of my teachers, Michael Hagedorn is wonderful with Quince and suggests a bit larger and deeper pots for their optimal care. They like water but also like to dry out a bit between watering. This process likely helps to prevent fungal issues.

 

[River's Edge]

Good points that I will add to my notes.

Frank, what time frame when you say Fall...Early fall or mid fall for those repots?

I actually wait till late September early October in my location. The timing is to allow 3-4 weeks before the earliest expected dormancy period. This gives some recovery time and the Quince / Chojubai are noted for progression at lower temperatures than other species. When repotting Quince i am not aggressive or bare rooting. More along the regular routine of ensuring the most congested areas are dealt with, be it the centre core or one side at a time. I have had better results with staged repotting more frequently, rather than very aggressive repotting less frequently. The exception is with very young plants and cuttings which i prefer to overplant in very large containers and let them run for several years.

NOTE: repotting routines are also structured around particular soil mixes, if one is using different components, or particle sizes then frequency and methods will change. My methods are based on medium particle size, free draining inorganic components chosen to optimize air and moisture mix. This means very little deterioration of soil components and one can focus on rejuvenating the root structure in stages.

 

[shinmai]

Light has a lot to do with the flower color. I used to have a Texas scarlet. It had the prettiest of salmon color when I bought it. I thought it was tagged wrong. But...the nursery stated it was because it had low light. (Brought into the shop because of the cold temps in Ohio and wasn't getting adequate lighting.) When summer rolled around and my tree went into the sun...it had lovely bold red blooms.
View attachment 223661

First, thank you for the insight. I think you are exactly on target, since the quince in question first bloomed outside when we were going through a protracted period of rainy weather with lots of overcast, gray days. I've had it inside since the cold weather hit around the first week of December because I was traveling a lot, and needed to repair some storm damage to my greenhouse before everything went outside for the winter nap. Just when I'm about to take it outside, it blooms again--and it's the only one of seven quinces that has done this.
Second, sorry to hear that such a beautiful tree died on you. It really did look fabulous in that pot, and the styling was very nice as well.
For what it's worth, I bought all of mine in June, and at that time I simply washed as much nursery goop off the roots as I could without otherwise molesting them. I put them in some 6" round plastic grow pots from China with perforated bottoms, and by the end of August I had roots growing out the bottom of the pots. I then "seriously" reduced and repotted them around the time of the autumnal equinox. All seven are thriving, and two in particular, a semi- and a full cascade, look like they might have real potential.
Best of luck with your new attempt in the spring, and thanks again for the help.

 

[River's Edge]

One of my teachers, Michael Hagedorn is wonderful with Quince and suggests a bit larger and deeper pots for their optimal care. They like water but also like to dry out a bit between watering. This process likely helps to prevent fungal issues.

Here is a picture from a Bonsai Nursery in Japan taken during a trip in 2011. I think it will give you a perspective of the extra depth considered appropriate for Chojubai.

 

[quietobserver]

Here is a picture from a Bonsai Nursery in Japan taken during a trip in 2011. I think it will give you a perspective of the extra depth considered appropriate for Chojubai.

Any chojubai in anything shallow isn’t there for long.

 

[0soyoung]

After several disappointing growth seasons with Chinese Quince and the Japanese dwarf chojubai as well. I switched to fall repotting and more shaded locations. Since then, the growth and health issues have improved dramatically.

Repot in Aug/Sep = the only way to fly with chaenomeles.
Right after blooming is the worst.

 

[Shinjuku]

After several disappointing growth seasons with Chinese Quince and the Japanese dwarf chojubai as well. I switched to fall repotting and more shaded locations. Since then, the growth and health issues have improved dramatically.

Sacramento summers are pretty brutal, so I moved all of my quince to full afternoon shade, and they were much happier there. Mine would not have made it through the summer in afternoon sun here. Note - this might be less critical where summers are a little milder.

I’d also echo the great advice on deeper pots for quince. Their roots need plenty of room to be healthy.

 

[0soyoung]

I’d also echo the great advice on deeper pots for quince. Their roots need plenty of room to be healthy.

Room or is it air?
Substrate in shallow pots are largely saturated for much of the day (of course depending on when one waters and etc.). Deeper means the opposite. Maybe larger grain size substrate for quince in shallower pots?

Regardless, I agree that chaenomeles does better in deeper pots. I use Turface MVP for everything I grow and just haven't felt it worth the trouble to track down bigger grained stuff (e.g. pumice, lava, etc.) to find out.

 

[leatherback]

it had lovely bold red blooms.

LOVE this tree. Was going to toss mine but seeing this..

 

[JudyB]

After several disappointing growth seasons with Chinese Quince and the Japanese dwarf chojubai as well. I switched to fall repotting and more shaded locations. Since then, the growth and health issues have improved dramatically.
I did not change the soil components or watering program. In this case i was not dealing with nematodes, however the plants appeared to experience difficulty with spring repotting and smaller pots. Now they appear to be the vigorous growers that they are reputed to be. Also the yellow portions of the leaves have disappeared, replaced with vibrant green. The only other change was to larger and deeper pots for root formation. My cuttings have also improved with larger containers and deeper soil.
I agree that the amount of light affects the color intensity of the flowers and the foliage.

This may be the missing link for many of us who have not "figured out" chojubai and Chinese quince. I will try, thanks Frank!

 

[BonsaiGuyNJ]

I am in Zone 7, New Jersey, and just purchased a Japanese flowering Quince bonsai, already potted up, from an online vendor. The tree looks terrific. Right now it is in my shed for the winter. I'm looking forward to seeing this bonsai in the Spring.