Raintree Ruminations

[Cable]

My Brazilian raintree is back inside for the winter.

Last winter is was doing great all fall and winter but then in Feb took a nosedive and nearly died. I'm pretty sure it was all due to bad soil. It got a re-pot into better soil and built strength all summer. My plan was to let it be until spring (other than trimming new growth) and then work on it in the spring.

Last year after looking at it all winter I decided I wanted to accentuate the slant and removed most of the branches to the left (except for one small branch I liked for balance. While looking at it this year I see several possibilities going forward.

This is the tree today:



My first thought was to remove the upright and accentuate the slant. I liked it more in my head than the mockup.



Another idea would be to do a drastic change in direction.



I could also leave it as is and just let it fill in.



I also kinda like the idea of mostly leaving it as is but separating into pads.



So many possibilities. I will continue to ponder!

 

[Warpig]

At work so please forgive the sloppiness.

 

[Cable]

Maybe!

 

[sorce]

pretty sure

This is just a sign to me that there are more questions to ask. Sure sure is Knowing.
I'd rather talk about knowing that than designing a tree that may be on a path to the same date or Actually dying.

I had a ficus go into a near death episode because of overfertilizing with the "time released" balls, which is bullshit, so, let's say you have those in your soil again....

Just saying.
If we can get over that pretty sure, we'll have helped.

Cheers!

Sorce

 

[Cable]

This is just a sign to me that there are more questions to ask. Sure sure is Knowing.
I'd rather talk about knowing that than designing a tree that may be on a path to the same date or Actually dying.

I had a ficus go into a near death episode because of overfertilizing with the "time released" balls, which is bullshit, so, let's say you have those in your soil again....

Just saying.
If we can get over that pretty sure, we'll have helped.

Cheers!

Sorce

Well here’s the thing. It was perfectly fine all fall and winter. Growing so strongly I was getting mildly irritated. I went home in a Friday, perfect health. Came backto work on Monday and both trees (this one and a parrots beak) had strongly declined. Very droopy leaves that soon defoliated. Both trees eventually recovered after four months of intensive care. Both were bought from the same vendor. Both had the same crappy soil when I did an emergency re-pot in early spring.

What caused it?

I always watered a little extra on Friday since I’m out of the office on the weekends. On Monday, both trays under the pots still had standing water. That hadn’t happened before. When I re-potted, both had soggy soil in the middle that was dry on the edges. That’s why I suspect soil.

But...

Why such a quick decline? Why both plants the same weekend?

A coworker suggested there could have been a power outage but my timer was fine. Another suggested the heat was off over the weekend. Why not every other weekend. I fertilized at some point in the preceding week. Did I mess up the concentration? Could it have been sabotage? I would hope not!

My gut tells me it was the soil but I can’t say for sure.

 

[sorce]

My gut tells me it was the soil but I can’t say for sure.

It doesn't seem soil.

The heat question seems valid, especially with your standing water notation.
I think, did the tree not use it?
More likely, it didn't evaporate.

Sorce

 

[Carol 83]

Both were bought from the same vendor. Both had the same crappy soil when I did an emergency re-pot in early spring.

I suspect I know who that vendor is....that soil about killed one of my BRT's. My own fault for not repotting it sooner. Learned my lesson. I got another from them, because they do have decent ones, but repotted it right away. I kind of like Warpig's suggestion, but would wait for spring when it's growing vigorously.

 

[Cable]

It doesn't seem soil.

The heat question seems valid, especially with your standing water notation.
I think, did the tree not use it?
More likely, it didn't evaporate.

Sorce

I use the tray to catch overflow not as a humidity tray. My thinking is that I inadvertently overwatered which lead to water still being in the tray where previously there would have only been a little run off so all would evaporate.

 

[sorce]

I use the tray to catch overflow not as a humidity tray. My thinking is that I inadvertently overwatered which lead to water still being in the tray where previously there would have only been a little run off so all would evaporate.

I don't believe in overwatering. For good reason. It's a myth!
Grandma used to overwater her indoor plants because there were no drainage holes, there were no drainage holes because we didn't want to ruin tables.
That caused root rot which led to this myth that we can overwater plants in pots with drainage holes.

So the cold scenario seems more likely still.

Sorce

 

[Warpig]

I don't believe in overwatering. For good reason. It's a myth!
Grandma used to overwater her indoor plants because there were no drainage holes, there were no drainage holes because we didn't want to ruin tables.
That caused root rot which led to this myth that we can overwater plants in pots with drainage holes.

So the cold scenario seems more likely still.

Sorce

Watering is only half of the problem with bad soil. Its vary possible that the roots werent getting enough oxygen, even more so if the tray was filled with enough water to block the drain holes.

 

[sorce]

Watering is only half of the problem with bad soil. Its vary possible that the roots werent getting enough oxygen, even more so if the tray was filled with enough water to block the drain holes.

But Oxygen, as in airflow, is also a myth.

Sorce

 

[Forsoothe!]

I haven't seen any reference to the light it received in one position or another. It's an understory tree in Brazil where they get better light intensity and longer photo-period in what passes for "winter" than Cleveland gets in summer. (Cleveland is just like Detroit, but without all the glitter) Sounds like what I experience every mid-winter where the tropicals coast until a prolonged cloudy period which tells them to go to sleep. It sounds like you're confusing a deciduous response to low light and a corresponding sudden reduction in water requirements. In Michigan, lowering light levels of late summer and autumn are accompanied by lower moisture levels, too, and that's what our plants are accustomed to. I could speculate that it works that way where the dry season replaces our dimmer winter, but that would be specious. Maybe one of our Brasileiros can comment on that? How many years have you had this tree?

 

[Cable]

Lights were on a timer. It is a windowless office. There was no change. These trees are not deciduous. It was my first season with the trees.

Water or cold caused by a power outage hopefully neither happens this year.

 

[canoeguide]

I like the fact that you've done something different than the usual upright/spreading habit of BRT. If you want to continue that trend, I would do the last option that you presented (with the pads).

 

[Forsoothe!]

Lights were on a timer. It is a windowless office. There was no change. These trees are not deciduous. It was my first season with the trees.

Water or cold caused by a power outage hopefully neither happens this year.

I have bad news for you. Tropical trees are deciduous outside of their accustomed rainforest range. About 2,000 miles is lots. It will happen, again. Losing foliage is not an indicator of sickness, it is a reasonable response to poor growing conditions. Is your office like a rainforest? Lots of tropicals go to sleep and wake up in a dumpster talking to themselves, "...I go to sleep and the guy treats me like I'm dead...".

As you can see on the attached chart of solar radiation (overlayed three years wide for ease of viewing the whole single year in either hemisphere) the strength of solar radiation is expressed in Wm² (Watts per square meter). The peak for Detroit @ 42.6°N on summer solstice is never more than 200 Wm² and at -10°S in Brazil is never less than ~340 Wm². Not close.

 

[Cable]

I guess we'll find out.

 

[Carol 83]

IDK, mine don't lose any leaves when inside. They get a little leggy, but they still grow.

 

[Matt H.]

"I also kinda like the idea of mostly leaving it as is but separating into pads."

View attachment 266774

"So many possibilities. I will continue to ponder!"
All the postulation about last year's incident aside, I like this last option you present the most. Only my opinion, no more...

 

[Warpig]

I have bad news for you. Tropical trees are deciduous outside of their accustomed rainforest range. About 2,000 miles is lots. It will happen, again. Losing foliage is not an indicator of sickness, it is a reasonable response to poor growing conditions. Is your office like a rainforest? Lots of tropicals go to sleep and wake up in a dumpster talking to themselves, "...I go to sleep and the guy treats me like I'm dead...".

As you can see on the attached chart of solar radiation (overlayed three years wide for ease of viewing the whole single year in either hemisphere) the strength of solar radiation is expressed in Wm² (Watts per square meter). The peak for Detroit @ 42.6°N on summer solstice is never more than 200 Wm² and at -10°S in Brazil is never less than ~340 Wm². Not close.
View attachment 266832

Thank you for posting the graph. Saved for reference.

 

[Cable]

IDK, mine don't lose any leaves when inside. They get a little leggy, but they still grow.

Question for you since I don’t have much experience with tropicals. Do you fertilize in winter? Mine got fish emulsion and liquid kelp once a week all growing season. I’m wondering if that’s enough stored energy plus residuals in the soil to last until spring? Especially since they kinda go into ”stasis” as another person described it.