Nomad
Sapling
Just wondering. Though there are several methods for ramification in pine and such, I don't recall any methods particularly for larch. Does anyone have any suggestions for what works for you?
Ramification in Larch
- Thread starter Nomad
- Start date
fourteener
Omono
If your tamarack is in good health, pull all the foliage off . It will bud back like crazy. Every buds worth of needles you pull off you'll get 5-7 new buds. Now that's ramification.
Vance Wood
Lord Mugo
At what stage in the annual growth cycle do you do this and are you just talking about striping the needles or removing the current growth? If you could be more detailed it would help every body.
coh
Imperial Masterpiece
What he said...more details please!
fourteener
Omono
Timing would be the end of July for me. That gives the new growth time to come out harden off in the fall, and not alter the trees cycle too much. If your timing it up for a show, three weeks is about right. In that time you will have a new flush of growth that is what we love so much in the spring
As far as the process goes, I trim all the new growth with scissors first. Trim it so there are 1-2 new buds on the New Years growth. No use needle plucking all the stuff you were going to cut off anyway. Then by hand, I pluck off all of the needles. It's a little time consuming, but the payoff is amazing. Cut back on the watering, the tree won't be using as much with no foliage.
The payoff... The buds will be a third of the size as usual and buds will pop out in places you didn't know was a place!
It's the same effect as stripping all the leaves off of a maple and watching tiny leaves replace them. It can't be done every year, as at some point it will stress the tree out too much. I only do it on show years or years when I get my branches in position and looking to get some ramification. Tamaracks are vigorous growers and I probably should start doing it more. They are one of those trees that need to be slowed down a bit.
As far as the process goes, I trim all the new growth with scissors first. Trim it so there are 1-2 new buds on the New Years growth. No use needle plucking all the stuff you were going to cut off anyway. Then by hand, I pluck off all of the needles. It's a little time consuming, but the payoff is amazing. Cut back on the watering, the tree won't be using as much with no foliage.
The payoff... The buds will be a third of the size as usual and buds will pop out in places you didn't know was a place!
It's the same effect as stripping all the leaves off of a maple and watching tiny leaves replace them. It can't be done every year, as at some point it will stress the tree out too much. I only do it on show years or years when I get my branches in position and looking to get some ramification. Tamaracks are vigorous growers and I probably should start doing it more. They are one of those trees that need to be slowed down a bit.
Vance Wood
Lord Mugo
I have a couple of questions. You are saying that this method causes back budding on older wood? If my understanding of what you wrote is correct this is amazing and thank you. I have another question: How many seasons in a row is it possible to perform this technique, or is there a cycle that has to be followed before you start to weaken the tree?
I know you mention that you do not do this every year but you seem to indicate that it can be done every year. Do you know the track record of those who do do it every year? One more question: What would happen if this was done in the first of June? Do any of you practice trimming back or pinching the new growth on Larch, as well as this program, or is it a matter of one or the other but not both?
Last edited:
fourteener
Omono
It stimulates budding back down the branch. On older trees, I can say for certain that it doesn't get you anything on an older trunk. On some of the old (black flaky bark) trees, I have never got the trunk to give out a new bud, but the branches all the way back to the crotch of limb and tree have.
I don't know if there are people who do it every year. So I really can't say. It would be a good experiment for me though. I have several tamarack that are just sitting in pots waiting to be overworked. Tamarack are so vigorous though, I can't imagine you couldn't do a three years on, one year off kind of track.
My usual timing of things is to give my Tamarack two haircuts a summer. One around the end of July and one at the end of the season before I put them away. Anything on the branch growing up gets cut off totally, anything growing sideways get trimmed back to one or two new buds. Then i might do an even harder pruning in the spring when I rewire.
As far as an early June trim...I guess it depends on your area. My trees are barely growing in the beginning of June so it seems like a funny question to me!! I realize everyone's season is longer than mine!! This is just a guess...that new growth hasn't done much to help the tree at that point, it's only cost the tree something. If it's done too early it might be harder on the tree. I'm no plant scientist though.
I do know if you do it too late in the season the tree will go into fall and attempt to stay awkwardly green into winter and never turn yellow or shed needles. I was worried that I messed something up and wondered what would happen the next spring...it acted like an oak tree with the new buds pushing off old needles. It didn't seem to have any ill-effect.
Nomad
Sapling
So to clarify, you are trimming the needles off except on just a few of the buds, and then plucking off the rest of the needles, and you do this process twice, once in summer then in fall? I'm just a little confused here sorry can you just be more specific on this part of the process?
Last edited:
fourteener
Omono
So to clarify, you are trimming the needles off except on just a few of the buds, and then plucking off the rest of the needles, and you do this process twice, once in summer then in fall? I'm just a little confused here sorry can you just be more specific on this part of the process?[/QUOTE]
There are two things going on here and they need to be separated. First, Tamarack throw out a shoot much like a Chinese elm. When you prune a Chinese elm you cut off all but 1-2 leaves depending on a few things. When a tamarack sends out a shoot, after they develop a little bit you can see next years buds forming. When I go in to trim it, I trim it to leave one or two buds depending on direction. That's the non-invasive norm that I do twice per year. Not pulling off needles, just trimming shoots.
The second issue is plucking needles. After I've done the step above, I go in and strip off all the needles, every last one. You really have to cut back on the water at that point. Give it 10-14 days and tiny little buds will pop out. Enough that you might decide to pluck some. When the buds start popping, get back to watering as usual. When you do this there isn't much need to trim things a second time. I never pluck the needles twice in a summer, only once every other summer, depending on how busy life gets, and how healthy a tree might be. I would not do this the same year I repotted.
This summer I will do a photo journal of the process. People seem interested.
I learn through pictures, but don't have any. I'll try to solve that this summer.
Last edited:
Joedes3
Shohin
Thanks for the info. I look forward to the pictures.
Joedes
Joedes
RKatzin
Omono
tmmason10
Omono
Very good point here, and well represented in these two photos!
fourteener
Omono
When you see a stand of tamarack in a swamp you will almost never see a mix of mature and immature trees...why? Tamaracks hate the shade, and young trees can't compete living in the shade of their elders. You see either a stand of mature giants or tons of little ones together. This is why I do not feel bad at all about thinning out a stand of young tamaracks.
Last edited:
RKatzin
Omono
That little guy is one I've raised from a seedling. I've been bumping it up on each repot to the box you see and the year I am moving into sunnier territory. I just wired up the new leader and now on the road to fatten the trunk.
Larch do not grow native in my neck of the woods, only on the east side of the Cascades. They do well here if planted, but do not reseed themselves.
Larch do not grow native in my neck of the woods, only on the east side of the Cascades. They do well here if planted, but do not reseed themselves.
Lenz covers this larch defoliation thing in his, "From the Wild" book. Personally, I rarely do this, mostly because I have developed larches and I have found that if I keep them very feebly fertilized with a thin root pad they dwarf up nicely, don't tend to reach-up as much, don't eat wire and are easier to keep BUT for trees I have wanted to densify quick its been a good technique for me too.
fourteener
Omono
Crust doesn't...I do...the nursery nearby takes care of their larch forest by planting it in potting soil and never watering it all summer!!
Proof that there is more than one way to skin a cat(is that a politically correct statement now days??)
twisted trees
Omono
Perhaps some clear terminology might be helpful. The term "back budding" usually refers to adventitious growth where buds form where there were no buds before. Larch do not do this. The buds that exist are the ones you get. While all the buds that exist can turn into branches not all of them do unless stimulated to do that. Perhaps fourteener's method of pruning and needle removal does this, I can't say as I've never tried it.
Larch tend to be apically and terminally dominant meaning that you will tend to get new growth at the top of the tree and the ends of branches. This can be overcome with pruning. Larch form terminal buds at the very end of their branches. Once this happens the growth shuts down for the year. The next season the terminal bud becomes dominant and there may be a few of the buds that exist down the branch, near the end, which activate and form ramification. The other buds usually open in the spring but never extend. Over a number of years of this these buds extend very gradually and become spurs with a bud on the end. These dormant buds and spurs can be stimulated to extend. Usually this can happen when the terminal end is removed but only the buds and spurs near the end of the pruned branch activate and extend.
How to overcome this tendency. Maybe use fouteener's method. I've never tried it but will try it this summer.
What I do is two-fold. One is to prune judiciously while the tree is young. This causes ramification further down the branch closer to the trunk. Once this ramification occurs the secondary and tertiary branches tend to continue to extend. However if a terminal bud is allowed to form this shuts down growth for the year.
So what to do about the terminal buds. One, in the spring prune the terminal bud off. This will cause existing buds behind it to extend. A caution though, cut all of the buds off the twig and it will not form a new bud so be careful to leave a bud or three when pruning. Next, I've found out that if you continually trim new growth before it forms a terminal bud that several of the buds on the new growth will begin to extend and thereby gaining ramification. I have removed terminal buds after they form and gained ramification but it seems to take the tree a while to recognize the loss of the terminus and stimulate more bud extension.
I hope this is helpful.
Larch tend to be apically and terminally dominant meaning that you will tend to get new growth at the top of the tree and the ends of branches. This can be overcome with pruning. Larch form terminal buds at the very end of their branches. Once this happens the growth shuts down for the year. The next season the terminal bud becomes dominant and there may be a few of the buds that exist down the branch, near the end, which activate and form ramification. The other buds usually open in the spring but never extend. Over a number of years of this these buds extend very gradually and become spurs with a bud on the end. These dormant buds and spurs can be stimulated to extend. Usually this can happen when the terminal end is removed but only the buds and spurs near the end of the pruned branch activate and extend.
How to overcome this tendency. Maybe use fouteener's method. I've never tried it but will try it this summer.
What I do is two-fold. One is to prune judiciously while the tree is young. This causes ramification further down the branch closer to the trunk. Once this ramification occurs the secondary and tertiary branches tend to continue to extend. However if a terminal bud is allowed to form this shuts down growth for the year.
So what to do about the terminal buds. One, in the spring prune the terminal bud off. This will cause existing buds behind it to extend. A caution though, cut all of the buds off the twig and it will not form a new bud so be careful to leave a bud or three when pruning. Next, I've found out that if you continually trim new growth before it forms a terminal bud that several of the buds on the new growth will begin to extend and thereby gaining ramification. I have removed terminal buds after they form and gained ramification but it seems to take the tree a while to recognize the loss of the terminus and stimulate more bud extension.
I hope this is helpful.
