Ramification questions

[Zapflanagan]

At the moment I have a dwarf Jade, sleeping hibiscus, and fukien tea. One member of a different forum told me that none of these can be used for bonsai, is this true? I was asking him about ramification practices for these species, and never received an answer. Would it be possible for anyone to explain how ramification works to me, I am still very confused in the subject no matter how much u read. Thank you so much for all of your help.

 

[leatherback]

One member of a different forum told me that none of these can be used for bonsai, is this true?

I think the answer you received was "Can't help you with those. I do not have any of these species and would never consider them for bonsai."
That is not the same that they cannot be used.

I would have been nice to actually ask the question in the original thread wouldn't it?

 

[Zapflanagan]

I misunderstood your original responce. I am sorry I switched to a different thread, I thought it would have been rude to respond to you in this way, I see I was wrong and am sorry. Would you still be willing to explain where to cut for ramification, or be able to point me in the right direction?

 

[sorce]

Welcome to Crazy!

Chances are great, that by the time your trees need worry about ramification, you will have already figured it out.

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Sorce

 

[Zapflanagan]

Welcome to Crazy!

Chances are great, that by the time your trees need worry about ramification, you will have already figured it out.

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Sorce

I really hope so, I just am unsure if I should be cutting before or after the node, and how many nodes back I should be cutting.

 

[leatherback]

eah node is the place where new buds sit. Depending on the species you can get 1, 2 or more side branches at each node. So you LEAVE the node where you want a new branch. Species dependent you leave one or two nodes.

 

[Zapflanagan]

eah node is the place where new buds sit. Depending on the species you can get 1, 2 or more side branches at each node. So you LEAVE the node where you want a new branch. Species dependent you leave one or two nodes.

So branches don't grow out of where you cut?

 

[leatherback]

So branches don't grow out of where you cut?

For most species no. For zelkova yes. But most species do not readile create buds anywhere besides at the nodes. Which is why short internodes are important.

 

[Zapflanagan]

For most species no. For zelkova yes. But most species do not readile create buds anywhere besides at the nodes. Which is why short internodes are important.

I'm sorry for asking all of these questions, so an internode is the space between two nodes?

 

[leatherback]

Yes.
Maybe you should start to do some reading?

 

[Zapflanagan]

Yes.
Maybe you should start to do some reading?

I have done much reading, but nothing I could find had a good explanation of this, thank you for all of your help.

 

[sorce]

Post some pictures!

There will be a difference for opposite and alternate leaf patterns.
I believe Jade is opposite and Hibiscus is alternate, don't know bout fukien, I think it's alternate.

Sorce

 

[Zapflanagan]

Do these help?

 

[Zach Smith]

Ramification is a word that means division into smaller units - so with a tree's branches, the division of a main branch into two or more sub-branches, then the division of those into sub-sub-branches, and so on. Think about our vascular system - same principle. Each leaf that a tree produces will have a bud in the leaf axil, and that bud can extend to produce an entire shoot of its own with leaves that each have a bud in their axils, which can extend to produce still more shoots. So when you cut back a branch to, say, two leaves, each of those has a bud in its axil that can extend to become a shoot (or sub-branch). The development process for a bonsai is to continue to prune back growth so that new shoots emerge from where leaves originated.

I hope this helps.

 

[Zapflanagan]

Ramification is a word that means division into smaller units - so with a tree's branches, the division of a main branch into two or more sub-branches, then the division of those into sub-sub-branches, and so on. Think about our vascular system - same principle. Each leaf that a tree produces will have a bud in the leaf axil, and that bud can extend to produce an entire shoot of its own with leaves that each have a bud in their axils, which can extend to produce still more shoots. So when you cut back a branch to, say, two leaves, each of those has a bud in its axil that can extend to become a shoot (or sub-branch). The development process for a bonsai is to continue to prune back growth so that new shoots emerge from where leaves originated.

I hope this helps.

Thank you, this was very helpful, by cutting back to two leave you mean cutting have on the branch so only two nodes with leaves are left right?

 

[sorce]

only two nodes with leaves are left right

Yes .. but.....

Leaves don't always mean buds.
The buds are what makes branches,
Which makes ramification.

So cut back to 2 buds.

Ceptin fer I wouldn't cut on them no more till next late summer.

Sorce

 

[Zapflanagan]

Ok

Yes .. but.....

Leaves don't always mean buds.
The buds are what makes branches,
Which makes ramification.

So cut back to 2 buds.

Ceptin fer I wouldn't cut on them no more till next late summer.

Sorce

Thank you again

 

[Zach Smith]

Thank you, this was very helpful, by cutting back to two leave you mean cutting have on the branch so only two nodes with leaves are left right?

Yes, that sounds right.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

Your photos show trees that are fairly sparse. Many of your branches already only have 2 leaves left on them. You will get better ramification, if you grow through cycles of allowing the trees to expand, and bush out, then cut back to only 2, then allow the tree to grow and bush out. Then cut back again. Each cycle of growing out, allow 6 or more inches of growth to be added before beginning a prune cycle. Allowing growth will allow the tree to accumulate energy which will give you better back budding and ramification response after pruning. Depending on your climate, once a year, to 3 or 4 times a year would be the cycle. Never more than 4 times a year even in southern Florida. The further north or the cooler your climate the fewer times per year you should have a pruning session.

IF you prune continuously, every time a branch grows just a few leaves, you will slowly weaken your trees.

Just trying to help. Zach gave you an excellent explanation of ramification.

 

[Zapflanagan]

Your photos show trees that are fairly sparse. Many of your branches already only have 2 leaves left on them. You will get better ramification, if you grow through cycles of allowing the trees to expand, and bush out, then cut back to only 2, then allow the tree to grow and bush out. Then cut back again. Each cycle of growing out, allow 6 or more inches of growth to be added before beginning a prune cycle. Allowing growth will allow the tree to accumulate energy which will give you better back budding and ramification response after pruning. Depending on your climate, once a year, to 3 or 4 times a year would be the cycle. Never more than 4 times a year even in southern Florida. The further north or the cooler your climate the fewer times per year you should have a pruning session.

IF you prune continuously, every time a branch grows just a few leaves, you will slowly weaken your trees.

Just trying to help. Zach gave you an excellent explanation of ramification.

This was extremely helpful, thank you.