Real hedging and development the Smoke way!!!

Leo in N E Illinois

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I think Smoke is just "busy" enjoying life elsewhere. I think he is just "taking a break" from battling with a certain dedicated group of detractors here. He is certainly actively posting in his own blog, the link is in his signature line. I imagine he will be back. I for one always admired his backing up most of what he says with photos of what he actually does. Good, bad or indifferent, he backs up what he says. I don't always appreciate his blunt, occasionally combative style, but I do like that he shares and demonstrates technique.
 

BrianBay9

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I think Smoke is just "busy" enjoying life elsewhere. I think he is just "taking a break" from battling with a certain dedicated group of detractors here. He is certainly actively posting in his own blog, the link is in his signature line. I imagine he will be back. I for one always admired his backing up most of what he says with photos of what he actually does. Good, bad or indifferent, he backs up what he says. I don't always appreciate his blunt, occasionally combative style, but I do like that he shares and demonstrates technique.

Agreed. He's still reading here. Occasionally messages someone.
 

just.wing.it

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I think Smoke is just "busy" enjoying life elsewhere. I think he is just "taking a break" from battling with a certain dedicated group of detractors here. He is certainly actively posting in his own blog, the link is in his signature line. I imagine he will be back. I for one always admired his backing up most of what he says with photos of what he actually does. Good, bad or indifferent, he backs up what he says. I don't always appreciate his blunt, occasionally combative style, but I do like that he shares and demonstrates technique.
Well said.
I agree.
 
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Yep he’s quit the forum. I can’t speak for him but it was something along the lines of “sick of the bs around here”

its a shame because he brought a lot!! We all have shortcomings and shouldn’t judge others too much

I think the issue is people that get all butt hurt when someone, like @Smoke, corrects them when they are wrong about something.This baffles me because all of us are here to learn something, even the ones that are better at Bonsai than most...
 

Bonsai Nut

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The grafting tape can be seen here.

Now that I have moved to zone where I can grow Japanese maples (instead of just barely keep them alive), I have been re-reading a lot of Japanese maple threads.

I am curious about your use of grafting tape. Is that just to protect the big pruning scars? Why do you prefer that versus cut paste?
 

Lazylightningny

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There are many ways to reach a goal. Smoke has his methods, and they work quite well. Others have their own methods that work equally as well. Disparaging remarks should be tempered, and always be backed up with proven results of their own. To say one's method is inferior to another means nothing without showing what you have done yourself, and it only demeans yourself. Give the more advanced practitioners the benefit of the doubt and hear them out. You may just learn something.

I have been watching a lot of Peter Warren's videos lately. I have come to respect him not only for his bonsai, but as a person too. He mentioned in one of the videos that he shies away from the bonsai forums because of the toxic nature of them and the misinformation put out by new and intermediate practitioners that think they have all the answers. The proof is in the pudding. put up or shut up. I have no problem showing my mediocre trees, because I know that I have improved, and will continue to improve. I am here to learn. I am also here for the camaraderie. Most of you are super people, but there are those others that just seem to want to stir up trouble all the time. I've never used the ignore button in my 7 years here, but I may start soon. Be nice, people. We only think less of you when you start disparaging others.
 

Bonsai Nut

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There are many ways to reach a goal. Smoke has his methods, and they work quite well. Others have their own methods that work equally as well.

Though I agree with the spirit of this comment, I don't think other methods work equally as well. I believe that other methods work equally well in different circumstances.

Therefore I try to learn as much as possible from people who use different methods with good results. I seek to understand before I judge. Having lived for 24 years in Southern California, let me guarantee you that many things that work in Southern California do not work in North Carolina, and vice versa. @Smoke lives in Fresno. I have been in his back yard. We have a common understanding of the blast furnace that is California in the summer, and the questionable fluid that comes out of the pipes that they call "water" in the central valley. The fact that he has been able to accomplish so much with deciduous shohin in that hostile environment speaks to a high level of skill. I am no neophyte, but it was all I could do to keep trident maples alive in SoCal.

That is not to say that his methods are "better" than another's. Rather I see results, and I ask someone how they achieve them. If I don't understand why they do something, I ask "why did you do that". I'm sure they have a good reason :)

One of the first rules I learned in bonsai... find someone who is successful and repeat what they do EXACTLY. When you achieve their level of success, only then consider doing something different. If you follow this rule, you will always advance your bonsai, because you will be building off of someone else's experience and success. Too often, when people start out, they try to achieve the same results WITHOUT doing the exact same thing as someone else. These are people who are often doomed to being beginners over and over and over...
 

Lazylightningny

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One of the first rules I learned in bonsai... find someone who is successful and repeat what they do EXACTLY. When you achieve their level of success, only then consider doing something different. If you follow this rule, you will always advance your bonsai, because you will be building off of someone else's experience and success. Too often, when people start out, they try to achieve the same results WITHOUT doing the exact same thing as someone else. These are people who are often doomed to being beginners over and over and over...
This is a great point. Find someone in your region or similar climate to emulate and copy their methods. It's hard with so much information coming from a lot of different directions, though. On this site, we get a lot of good advice, but sometimes there are gaps in the communication of methods. Someone else chimes in with some advice to fill that gap. That may also be good advice, but may not fit in with the first person's exact method. It's best if you had a teacher- someone you could text or call and ask questions to. I've basically just been fumbling my way through this so far, trying to come up with a cohesive method. I'm making progress, but it would be a lot faster with a teacher. There are a few people on this site who haven't been doing bonsai for all that long, but who have a teacher. Their learning curve is exponentially faster than mine, and they are producing great material. My situation is not unique, however. I think most of us here in the beginner to intermediate phase are in the same situation.
 

0soyoung

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repeat what they do EXACTLY.
Did you ever work for Intel?
This is that company's manufacturing mantra.
A process and equipment set is identified by Development. Manufacturing reproduces exactly.

Manufacturing is a bore. It is the same day after day after day (reproducing EXACTLY).
It is the antithesis of creativity.

Creativity is in R&D.
R&D's mission is Star Trek --> go where man has not gone before.

Repeat EXACTLY is business. Profitable business.
It is not art.
Nor is it artistry.

Artists are flakes. Often poor flakes.
They struggle.
They create.
Often crap.
Sometimes, one of a kind masterpieces that have that certain, 'je ne sais quoi' = undefinable quality that evokes emotion.


Just an attack on an idea/concept.

Is bonsai manufacturing or is it R&D?
 

Bonsai Nut

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Is bonsai manufacturing or is it R&D?

It is both. Art without science = dead tree. Art without technique keeps you from realizing your vision. What it definitely isn't is blind luck.

I wouldn't know how to make a computer chip to save my life. However if someone gave me a trillion dollars and said "make a computer chip" I would say - look at what Intel does and then do it exactly. Once we are successful doing that, let's figure out how to do it better :)
 

Lazylightningny

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Just an attack on an idea/concept.

Is bonsai manufacturing or is it R&D?
Oso, I have to disagree with you on this one. When you set up a factory you need repeatable results before you can go beyond what you are manufacturing. Greg's point is not that you need to make production bonsai for the rest of your life. His point is learn how to do it first, in the method advocated by your master, and once you learn that, you can then go on to develop your own style and methods. It's like an apprenticeship. The apprentice blacksmith makes swords, for example, just like his master. Then when he goes off on his own, he develops other methods that will hopefully surpass the master. But you need to learn first.
 

sorce

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but who have a teacher. Their learning curve is exponentially faster than mine, and they are producing great material.

This has way more to do with the fact that the money that allows the teacher is also the same that allows the better material.

Some, if not most, of the trees are then also directly styled by the teacher.

Beautiful and ready to show, we may see these more, but these folks are not necessarily "producing great material".

Forgive me but that seems a little insulting to the guys who are actually out in the field producing great material.

Discipline in repitition is all it is.

Some folks pay for it.

Sorce
 

sorce

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Did you ever work for Intel?
This is that company's manufacturing mantra.
A process and equipment set is identified by Development. Manufacturing reproduces exactly.

Manufacturing is a bore. It is the same day after day after day (reproducing EXACTLY).
It is the antithesis of creativity.

Creativity is in R&D.
R&D's mission is Star Trek --> go where man has not gone before.

Repeat EXACTLY is business. Profitable business.
It is not art.
Nor is it artistry.

Artists are flakes. Often poor flakes.
They struggle.
They create.
Often crap.
Sometimes, one of a kind masterpieces that have that certain, 'je ne sais quoi' = undefinable quality that evokes emotion.


Just an attack on an idea/concept.

Is bonsai manufacturing or is it R&D?

I believe that 👆 deserves a better understanding. It was born from the Intel...intel, and worked in the "repetition exactly", but overall, I believe it was a different question, so there is nothing to disagree with.

Sorce
 

leatherback

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the money that allows the teacher is also the same that allows the better material.

Some, if not most, of the trees are then also directly styled by the teacher.

I this this is a great disrespect to all of those people out there who do their own styling and work on trees they dig from backyards.
 

rollwithak

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Thank you for asking a courteous question. I hate smart ass replies when all they want to do is cause problems or argue.. If you think I'm a hack start your own thread. That's what I did.

My growing season is long....BUT, that is a big But. It may be long but it is short in actual growing time. While it may be 9 months long I don't get the whole thing. My plants go into Summer-winter. They are not growing right now. They are dormant. Dormant from the heat. I may get a few shoots on a maple pop a couple buds right now, but for the most part June July and August are nothing months to me. I get about March April and May to hedge well. Then rest time for three months and then I get a spring push again around Sept 5th. That lasts until about Nov. 15th. Then Fall starts to set in. My winter is Dec, Jan, Feb. I start repotting end of Jan. and buds are popping middle of Feb.

For fertilizer, I inject the nine growing months. Even in winter. I don't fertilize June July or August. Just too hot here. I use Grow More 100% cold water soluble fertilizer with all trace minerals. The best commercial fertilizer on the market. Used by virtually every golf course and most growers in California on injector watering systems, which most are now. Even stone fruits and nut crops are water injected with fertiliser here.

View attachment 251107

I use a hose end injector like this at 17/1 dilution. I siphon the dilute fertilizer out of a five gallon bucket I mix about every 5 days.

View attachment 251108

Driving around the San Joaquin Valley one will see almost every ranch with an injector system like this near a road for service.

View attachment 251112View attachment 251109View attachment 251110View attachment 251111
Smoke, where do you pick that up here in Fresno?
 
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