Really thinking of planting this in the ground...no longer waisting time on it

[Steve Kudela]

This Hemlock was given to me because the backside has arctic wind damage from a few winters ago. I chopped a good 2/3's off it. I may play with my carving tools at the top dead wood...but I see it being planted out at my dad's place. It takes up a good amount of space...and isn't really specimen quality with the dead area on the back. Really chewing on what is in my collection...where it can actually go...and what needs to be thinned. Though my collection is small...I hate waisting time on something that will never amount to anything...and it takes up space where a better tree could go.

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The not so pretty...puts things into a better perspective...
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Look at the bottom right branch and think down the road 5 years. With vigorous growth you're there! I'll post pics of a couple of mine that were similar to that. I just let 'em grow for awhile either in the ground or in containers[ not bonsai pots]. I have always had a sizable collection and that makes it easier to deal with "lost causes". They can and often do turn into butterflies.

 

[Steve Kudela]

While Judy's option is telling it is not the only answer. This piece of material while ugly now has lots of potential in the right hands. Just because you do not possess the technique for improving it is not a reason to give up on it. Rather than pushing all the "no potential" on the tree, why not take a different route and improve your potential. Long thin branches on this hemlock can be wired and trained into wonderful graceful artistic shapes and bent down to give a startling image of age. Your only investment is wire and time. Look at good Bunjin pictures on the web, look thru books to see how thin long branches are handled and what foreshortening can do.

Then after all that, put your newly wired and styled tree on the bench and let it grow for a season or two and then reassess on the nature of your charge.
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Top notch!!!

 

[Cadillactaste]

Look at the bottom right branch and think down the road 5 years. With vigorous growth you're there! I'll post pics of a couple of mine that were similar to that. I just let 'em grow for awhile either in the ground or in containers[ not bonsai pots]. I have always had a sizable collection and that makes it easier to deal with "lost causes". They can and often do turn into butterflies.

Hemlock Steve with yours? I'm sorry I'm not sure which branch you speak of...front view or back dead view. lol But would be interested in seeing your photo.

 

[Steve Kudela]

Hemlock Steve with yours? I'm sorry I'm not sure which branch you speak of...front view or back dead view. lol But would be interested in seeing your photo.

It's the second pic of your tree, back view. The branch I'm speaking of shows up better. I'm picturing it as the trunk extension after serious wind and lightning damage. It would take wiring and some time but that's one possibility. Wish I knew how to do virtuals. Hope that helps. It would also create serious taper.

 

[Steve Kudela]

These are 3 trees that I gave up on after a few years of work and not getting anywhere. All were very young, the junipers no more than 5 or so years, the Siberian elm maybe 4 years from a cutting. I already had a number of other things that were much better. I just got tired of fooling with them and put the junipers in the landscape, let the elm grow all it wanted to, potting up periodically. Every few years, I would cut the elm back mercilessly paying no mind to shape. The junipers I payed no mind to, just let 'em grow. It took awhile but they are slowly but surely morphing into butterflies I think. The last is a quick sketch of just one possibility for that tree. Not necessarily great, but a possibility all the same. I'm not trying to step on your post, just showing the benefits of certain amounts of neglect over time with trees that are "lost causes". They all changed completely into trees that are infinitely better than they would have been had they been in bonsai pots being tended constantly. Again, I hope this helps...................SK

 

[Cadillactaste]

@Steve Kudela that is amazing food for thought! Along with inspiration. Maybe sticking it in the ground and thicken branches and reevaluate and assess is the best course of action. Thanks!

 

[Cadillactaste]

@ABCarve so...planting in the ground...focusing on that bottom branch. Any tips when to trim it a bit so encourage ramification and such. Really like Steve's approach. Making it much more manageable size wise for me as well.

 

[ABCarve]

As I said before.......if you want it to be a bonsai....don't plant it it the ground. I have much experience with eastern hemlock. They are much to vigorous to control. I have killed one in the ground and the another which is 12 feet tall, I keep threatening to cut down. This material is great to work on now. You need to develop your skills and use your vision.

 

[Cadillactaste]

As I said before.......if you want it to be a bonsai....don't plant it it the ground. I have much experience with eastern hemlock. They are much to vigorous to control. I have killed one in the ground and the another which is 12 feet tall, I keep threatening to cut down. This material is great to work on now. You need to develop your skills and use your vision.

So your thinking this one is an Eastern then over Western...I honestly can't recall which was stated. So excited to have free material.

 

[ABCarve]

Eastern is native to where we live.

 

[ABCarve]

"Arctic wind damage"?????? I didn't think they grew that far north. They typically they grow with a naked side usually the north side. The best for bonsai are collected in the shade as they haven't become so dense that the inner foliage has died off as often seen in nursery stock. Around here they are like flies on sh__. We're going collecting in a week.

 

[Steve Kudela]

As I said before.......if you want it to be a bonsai....don't plant it it the ground. I have much experience with eastern hemlock. They are much to vigorous to control. I have killed one in the ground and the another which is 12 feet tall, I keep threatening to cut down. This material is great to work on now. You need to develop your skills and use your vision.

Too vigorous? I"m not really clear on your meaning, not trying to start anything, but please elaborate. That's the whole point of ground growing. While I'm not a hemlock expert,[I've had a few over the years, they grow fairly well in my region, but don't really thrive with our shorter dormant period], I can't help but think that a few years in the ground would be beneficial. When growing off, you always have to keep pruners handy and be prepared to cut. Apical dominance shouldn't really be an issue at all.

 

[Cadillactaste]

"Arctic wind damage"?????? I didn't think they grew that far north. They typically they grow with a naked side usually the north side. The best for bonsai are collected in the shade as they haven't become so dense that the inner foliage has died off as often seen in nursery stock. Around here they are like flies on sh__. We're going collecting in a week.

Ahhh so the landscape company had no clue...said it was from the harsh winter we had that previous year. So the naked side was typical...or...I misunderstood...and they meant coloring. It was sickly looking when I got it. They said I could have it for free...no one would want it...with the arctic wind damage. I seen the bare side and assumed that was the damage. But maybe I was wrong in my thinking.



Last year before chopping...it had regained its health as you can see. (Prior to chop)


Looking back when I first mentioned this tree I called it a western. Now...I just came back from Google search where it describes being able to note a western by its new growth. Which is quite noticeable in my photo above.

TSUGA CANADENSIS/ Eastern or Canadian Hemlock
A broadly conical tree to 25 metres tall in its native eastern North America. T. canadensis has linear finely-toothed, mid-green leaves to 2cm that taper from their bases and are 2-ranked. There are many varieties of Tsuga canadensis available including dwarf and prostrate forms. Frequently seen is Tsuga canadensis 'Jedoloh' which has a common name of 'Birds Nest Tree because of its habit of spreading and forming a depression in the crown that resembles a birds nest.

TSUGA HETEROPHYLLA/ Western Hemlock
Narrowly conical tree with narrowly-oblong, finely-toothed, glossy dark-green leaves 0.5-2cm long which are 2-ranked. Native to west North America (Alaska to California) where it can reach heights of 20-40metres. (Extremely shade tolerant but requires extra shelter from the wind).

TSUGA DIVERSIFOLIA /Japanese Hemlock
Broadly conical, later domed tree, orange bark and orange shoots with short, fine hairs. Linear leaves are very glossy, dark-green, 0.5-2cm long and 2-ranked. Native to north Japan where it can reach heights of 15metres.

PRUNING Hemlocks grow very slowly and as new growth is similar in colour to mature foliage (except Tsuga heterophylla) growth extension can grow unnoticed and trees can easily get out of shape. Prune hard in late-Winter any trees that have grown out of shape. Wiring can be done at any time of the year though care should be taken not to damage tender new growth in Spring. Cut back fresh growth as it extends to produce a more compact second flush of growth and back budding from the base of old needles.

Link where the above information came from:
http://www.bonsai4me.com/SpeciesGuide/Tsuga.html

So if what is said above in quotes is true...could mine be the western that I stated when I first shared of getting this tree? Which I thought the guy had stated...but then...was foggy later. Or is the above information incorrect?

 

[ABCarve]

Too vigorous? I"m not really clear on your meaning, not trying to start anything, but please elaborate. That's the whole point of ground growing. While I'm not a hemlock expert,[I've had a few over the years, they grow fairly well in my region, but don't really thrive with our shorter dormant period], I can't help but think that a few years in the ground would be beneficial. When growing off, you always have to keep pruners handy and be prepared to cut. Apical dominance shouldn't really be an issue at all.

The only reason to put it in the ground is to fatten up the trunk or failing health. I don't think she has either problem. Cadilac's problem is she doesn't know how to get there from here. I'm going to start a thread on a little hemlock I've been doing since 2014. Might help.

 

[coh]

The only reason to put it in the ground is to fatten up the trunk or failing health. I don't think she has either problem. Cadilac's problem is she doesn't know how to get there from here. I'm going to start a thread on a little hemlock I've been doing since 2014. Might help.

That would be helpful. How do they respond to pruning...can you cut back past all the obvious buds or will that kill the branch, what is the best timing (cut before new growth, after it hardens, partially remove new growth), etc. I've got a little one (T. canadensis) but this is the first year I need to do some pruning to redirect growth.