Red Cedar in Water

pbrown00

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After many months, I've managed to root some Western Red Cedar in a cup of water. I took this picture about a week and a half ago, and now one of the roots has some smaller roots growing from it, as illustrated. Would it be safe to pot up now? If so, what kind of soil would be recommended? Any other tips or advice would be great.

Thanks!
IMG_8179.JPG
 

Greastart

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OK.....so what process? Way cool!
 

Wires_Guy_wires

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I'd wait another month for more supporting roots to develop, wrap it in peat moss, then plant it in regular bonsai soil.
The transfer from pure water to soil is usually a painstaking process if you're not going to put it in potting soil, but it would be working backwards to do so.
Most hydroponic growers might have some better tips on these kind of transfers.

I'm only familiar with going from ground to water TBH.
 

pbrown00

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Thanks for the advice! When you say "wrap it in peat moss," do you mean I should wrap the roots in it, and then put that in bonsai soil?
 

Wires_Guy_wires

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Yes, exactly. The moss will keep them damp so they dry out slower than bonsai soil. This might give them some extra buffer.
If the transfer is done too fast, the roots will just die off from lack of water, nutrient burn or even from air exposure. Moss helps prevent that. Eventually (2 years or so) the moss will fall apart and merge with the soil.
That's an extremely precautious approach of course. But I'm not familiar with this species, only with the technique.
 

pbrown00

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I'd wait another month for more supporting roots to develop, wrap it in peat moss, then plant it in regular bonsai soil.
The transfer from pure water to soil is usually a painstaking process if you're not going to put it in potting soil, but it would be working backwards to do so.
Most hydroponic growers might have some better tips on these kind of transfers.

I'm only familiar with going from ground to water TBH.

When you said "peat moss," do you mean something like this? https://www.walmart.com/ip/New-Zeal...7485&wl11=online&wl12=676626923&wl13=&veh=sem
 

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Peat moss is usually chopped very fine, looks like topsoil almost, you can buy it in bails at HD / Lowe's or such
Screenshot_20180509-165953.png
 

Wires_Guy_wires

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Yep, that's the stuff! Sphagnum is the usual name for it. Most garden stores sell it at pretty low prices, and it's easy to grow in a shallow dish of water (even from dried tissue, it'll revive).
Make sure you use gloves and wet the stuff before you use it. It has anti fungal properties that are highly prized (even in antiques, which are stored with the stuff wrapped around them) but there are some nasty fungi residing in some batches that could cause health issues. The dust isn't that nice too. Soak it a little before use.
Other than that, it's amazing stuff. I made a small bog in a box just to have some handy whenever I need it.
 

Wires_Guy_wires

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Peat itself is this kind of degraded sphagnum moss (and various other plants material). Usually, sphagnum is also added in shredded form to aid aeration (which doesn't work well when it's chopped up in organic mixtures).
But I think it would be good if somebody would finally set the record straight about the nomenclature. I mean, the peat is formed by the sphagnum, it basically is sphagnum. But it's peat. And moss. Well, the top layer is sphagnum, but the lower layers are peat, whereas the entire bog is called a peat bog. Even though the largest living part of it, is sphagnum.
But a Duck pond isn't made out of ducks like a peat bog is made out of peat.. Can we call the ducks, pond ducks? Or are they more like the live top layer? Sphagducks. But that would make the pond just be a shitpond (degraded duck particles).

Be cautious, I've been hearing that those sphagnum fungi could affect the brain.o_O
 

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After many months, I've managed to root some Western Red Cedar in a cup of water. I took this picture about a week and a half ago, and now one of the roots has some smaller roots growing from it, as illustrated. Would it be safe to pot up now? If so, what kind of soil would be recommended? Any other tips or advice would be great.

Thanks!
View attachment 191132
One other suggestion based on successful airlayering. Sift some pumice for the small particles/fines. Transfer the rooted cutting and water to a plastic pot of suitable size which is sitting in a plastic bag to hold the water. Drop the small pumice particle fines slowly into the new plastic container and let them filter down and settle around the roots.
The plastic bag will show you the water level and allow you to slowly adjust it downwards as the roots progress. When it comes time to repot just cut the plastic pot away and carefully transfer to Bonsai soil and new pot. If smaller pumice particles remain at the core it will not be a problem.
Here is a picture of how new roots can develop in fine particles of pumice.
 

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pbrown00

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One other suggestion based on successful airlayering. Sift some pumice for the small particles/fines. Transfer the rooted cutting and water to a plastic pot of suitable size which is sitting in a plastic bag to hold the water. Drop the small pumice particle fines slowly into the new plastic container and let them filter down and settle around the roots.
The plastic bag will show you the water level and allow you to slowly adjust it downwards as the roots progress. When it comes time to repot just cut the plastic pot away and carefully transfer to Bonsai soil and new pot. If smaller pumice particles remain at the core it will not be a problem.
Here is a picture of how new roots can develop in fine particles of pumice.

That's interesting. I'm pretty inexperienced with air-layering, so this may be a bad question, but could I get similar results with my cutting if I just pot it in pumice fines and keep it very wet?
 

River's Edge

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That's interesting. I'm pretty inexperienced with air-layering, so this may be a bad question, but could I get similar results with my cutting if I just pot it in pumice fines and keep it very wet?
That's how i do my cuttings. I mix akadama fines with pumice fines with sterilized children's play sand for my cutting media. Then i put a fine layer of shredded sphagnum moss over the top. Keep damp, let surface dry and then water when moss is drying out. The cuttings do not sit in water but the particle size is small enough to keep water in contact with the cutting. I have used this method for Itoigawa and Kishu juniper, azalea, tskumo cypress,chojubai,olive, etc.
Some types of trees it is common practice to just strike a cutting and push it back in the pot with the parent plant.
 

pbrown00

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Thanks, I'll try that! Should I let the cedar roots grow a little more in the water, or should I just pot it now?
 

pbrown00

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IMG_8612.JPG Update: I potted my red cedar cutting in small-grained pumice particles. The roots are also wrapped up in sphagnum moss.
 
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I would love to hear an update on your red cedar cutting! I am very new to bonsai and am toying with the idea of growing some Thuja plicata from seed because they are local to my area in Seattle Wa, but I have no experience growing seedlings. Your method seems interesting and I am curious how it has worked out.
 

pbrown00

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I'll try to post pics as soon as possible, but in the meantime, I'll just let you know that they are doing very well! I have three red cedars which I have rooted in pumice and two which I rooted in water. All are healthy!
 
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