red oak-should i buy it

[Dave E]

i'm kinda new to this and i just dumped some $ on basics-soil,tools,a couple small trees.
i've been trying to save for a decent pre bonsai tree something along the lines of a trident maple.

so i've been trying to avoid the garden sections at lowes,homey d,wally world the past couple days so i don't have any temptations.
well just came back from WM and guess what i did-went to the garden section.

there was a red oak tree in a large(5 gal) pot for $20.it had the kinda PHAT trunk i've been seeking.
at the surface it was 3"-3 1/2"and tapered to probably 2 3/4"-3" at around 4 inch in height.off to the side the main trunk (1 1/4")has been grafted.the transition is kinda funky but i think i can make it work.

my concern it seems like i hear negative things about grafted trees as bonsai.

for $20 should i go for it or am i better keeping that money and continue to save for a decent pre bonsai.

wish i taken some pics but heres some rough drawing to give you an idea what it looks like.
front and side

 

[rockm]

I highly doubt the tree has been grafted. More likely, it has been broken or sawed off and the shoot coming off to the side resulted from that. The tree produced that shoot by itself as a result of the injury. Your drawing shows what is a typical reaction to a "trunk chop" done in bonsai all the time.

For $20, get the tree if you want. no harm. Give it a shot. Not many red oak bonsai out there, so not many people will be able to tell you how it will work, though. Also, Eastern oaks like Red oak, can sometimes be VERY problematic when put under bonsai cultivation and most are far too coarse with twigging to be good smaller bonsai. To be "believable" as bonsai, eastern white and red oaks need to start off with trunks that approach eight or nine inches in diameter with a final planned height of between three and four feet...Smaller than that, they tend to look a bit strange, IMO.

 

[Dave E]

thanks for the advice the shoot coming off the side has a scar going all the way around it where it meets the fatter trunk/base-not bad but a definate line going all the way around so i assume it was a graf.

from the sounds of it will still a good amount of time and work though

 

[rockm]

The straight line you're seeing is mostly likely the branch collar that many tree species produce at the base of large branches. It marks a barrier where the tree can maximize callus growth if it loses the limb beyond. FWIW, grafts are rarely done at an angle on trees bound for specimen treatment in landscapes.
http://www.clemson.edu/extension/pe...t_problems_result_from_poor_pruning_cuts.html

 

[Potawatomi13]

Now you're talking. Oaks are great trees. If there were a graft scar it would be obliterated by the rough bark that would develop after a few years. Don't be intimidated by larger bonsai. Often A great Yamadori tree is a larger and outstandingly beautiful tree needing only some refinement and acclimatization to that perfect pot. With most trees you'll buy as nursery or pre bonsai stock you will still have several years of development to get any kind of good tree. Patience grasshopper. It's not the arrival but the journey that will make your trees something worthwhile and personally valuable to you and even after you've arrived the tree will not remain static. It continues to grow and change and tell you what will be the next phase of its life. Study each tree and take the time to see what will be the best way to go with it. However first off you have to be able to keep it alive and healthy. Never let them dry out in dry weather nor allow them to have wet feet. Good draining soil is a must. Happy roots happy tree. Most Oaks do well in near full or full sun conditions but not where extra heat will be reflected off a wall in hotter weather. If you're already possessed of a green thumb fantastic and please pardon my unneeded pointers..

 

[Dave E]

thanks for the advice-i had some bonsai 8 years ish years ago so i have a little understanding of the bonsai basics with somewhat of a green thumb.i still consider myself a beginer though

my ocd took over and i went back to wm to get the tree.
i'll post some pics- hopefuly get some advice.

 

[Dave E]

here are some pics of the red oak tree, i'm sure i have my work cut out for me trying to make the transition from the fat base trunk to the one that shoots out on the side but a fat trunk for $20 is hard to pass up.it's more like 3" at the base and 2 1/4"at the top of the fat section.

so since oaks are hard to make work as a bonsai due to there large leaf size it's probably better to keep some good height to this i'm thinking.
or should i just chop off the thinner trunk coming out the side leaving only the fat base?

i'd be grateful for any advice

 

[rockm]

DONT cut anything. That thinner trunk needs to bulk up a bit over two or three growing seasons to get rid of that nasty transition. It is the key to the future design. Final height for design is about a dozen steps down the priority list. Learning how to care for it is probably at the top of the list. You can't design a dead tree. Have you checked the root situation?

The fat base is not useable as is for what will be a trees with long internodes and big leaves.

Don't be so anxious to DO SOMETHING to the tree.

 

[Dave E]

what should i check for as far as roots
theres loose soil on the top-i can't go down more than an inch with my finger but it doesn't seem root bound if i try to pull the tree out the soil seems a little loose on the side of the pot but the tree is firmly in place.there is a nice nebari as well
so should i not even try to carve some of the base to make the transition taper a bit at this point-which will give a few years for the scars to heal as well?
what would you suggest are my steps for now and this season?

 

[klosi]

Looks nice. Soil seems pretty organic and moist. You'll have to be careful not to overwater it, as the soil does not seem very drainable and maybe a bit airless.

 

[Dave E]

actually the soil drains very well-it's been kinda rainy here today

 

[JudyB]

Do you have access to a ground growing spot? I would think that might be a good place to start with this.

 

[Dave E]

no i rent

 

[JudyB]

Look into a training box then, it will need some room to just grow.

 

[jquast]

Do you have access to a ground growing spot? I would think that might be a good place to start with this.

You could bury part of the nursery can in the ground and just let the roots escape through the drain holes at the bottom. When/if you have to move, just cut the roots that have escaped through the drain holes and take the tree with you with a nice root ball in the nursery can. I've done this on a few occasions, just remember to water the roots in the can so that they continue to grow as well.

 

[Dave E]

leaving it in the pot is my only option right now.
so is everyones advice to just leave it be except for watering and fertilizing, just let it grow wild and do what it wants.
should i do nothing to the roots,no bending/shaping any branches that form,no shaping the transition etc..

 

[JudyB]

I know you said you can't ground grow it, but could you get an anderson flat to grow it on in? Then you can start to work on roots. I shape all branches as they come so if I wind up keeping them, they have a start.

 

[Dave E]

yes i'm sure i can make something like that-i'm a carpenter so i can easily make a simple flat sort of growing box and i have a roll of window screen as well.

what should i do to work on the roots

 

[Potawatomi13]

Late it is for re planting this year. If however you can move it without all the dirt falling off then it should be OK. Cutting the plastic pot off with metal shears instead of dumping out can help. If you do make sure it gets the best of babysitting for survival and you maybe even will get 2nd growth this year. That is a great sign. Just survival and great health is all to do this year. Two new ones I got this spring: Cal Black Oak and Oregon White Oak(?)and next spring will do for me this time. Did 3 N. Red Oaks this spring from plastic pots(2-3 year seedlings)cutting off about half the roots and they all did great. Patience grasshopper.

 

[Dave E]

i actually repotted this last weekend into a grow box lined with screen for great drainage.
and there has been TONS of new growth shooting out all over the place