Refrigerator Dormancy

[GarlR]

Well, well. Long time no see!!! I have updated news about the bonsai in the refrigerator idea I had. I decided to give my redwoods to my dad, but I kept my little pre-bonsai japanese maple 'mikawa yatsubusa.'

I had it in the refrigerator for about a month. It was already in the dormant state before I got it. It still had the leaves on, but they easily were knocked off. I watered it about every 2-3 weeks. Also, I kept it wrapped in a plastic bag to prevent it from drying out with a pool of water in the bottom of it to increase humidity.

Good news, though!! IT WORKED!!!!!! All you nay-sayers said it couldn't be done, but look at me. now.

For the original thread about this go to....http://bonsainut.com/forums/showthread.php?9652-Outdoor-Tree-Being-Indoors-Can-I-Do-It

(I thought that this deserved it's own thread because the other thread doesn't have the appropriate title.)

Updated Pic:

 

[Smoke]

Let me see if I got this straight. You kept a maple in the refridgerator for a month in winter...

That about right?

What is magical about that?

 

[coh]

Well, well. Long time no see!!! I have updated news about the bonsai in the refrigerator idea I had. I decided to give my redwoods to my dad, but I kept my little pre-bonsai japanese maple 'mikawa yatsubusa.'

I had it in the refrigerator for about a month. It was already in the dormant state before I got it. It still had the leaves on, but they easily were knocked off. I watered it about every 2-3 weeks. Also, I kept it wrapped in a plastic bag to prevent it from drying out with a pool of water in the bottom of it to increase humidity.

Good news, though!! IT WORKED!!!!!! All you nay-sayers said it couldn't be done, but look at me. now.

For the original thread about this go to....http://bonsainut.com/forums/showthread.php?9652-Outdoor-Tree-Being-Indoors-Can-I-Do-It

(I thought that this deserved it's own thread because the other thread doesn't have the appropriate title.)

That's one small step for a man, a giant leap for mankind

 

[Fangorn]

Big deal
I bet I have stuff that's been in my refrigerator for over a month that's growing more than that

 

[GarlR]

Let me see if I got this straight. You kept a maple in the refridgerator for a month in winter...

That about right?

What is magical about that?

Because everyone said don't do it and/or that I'd kill it. Pretty magical.

 

[KennedyMarx]

GarlR, I think you should hold off on celebrating until you've overwintered it in the refrigerator more than once. I don't think that anyone was claiming it would immediately die in the refrigerator, but that it's health would decline immensely because of the conditions. I hope you're successful. I know how it is not having the space outside for plants.

 

[GarlR]

GarlR, I think you should hold off on celebrating until you've overwintered it in the refrigerator more than once. I don't think that anyone was claiming it would immediately die in the refrigerator, but that it's health would decline immensely because of the conditions. I hope you're successful. I know how it is not having the space outside for plants.

Hopefully, it will be. I was extremely pleased that it started having some leaves.

 

[JudyB]

Glad it made it thru for you. What are your plans for it? I hope you're planning on potting up to give it room to grow...

 

[coh]

Big deal
I bet I have stuff that's been in my refrigerator for over a month that's growing more than that

Could make a nice accent planting!

 

[Beng]

I tried this many years ago when I moved from the east coast to the west coast. I had a beautiful japanese larch back then. I bought a large ice box just to overwinter it as it wouldn't get a strong enough cold snap in the southern california area. Over the period of about a month decreased the temperature to 30 degrees and initiated its dormancy. Kept it there for 2.5 months, during the last half a month I raised the temp steadily to 50 degrees, the temperature control was done using a digital beer thermometer accurate to 1 degree. Brought it out in early spring and exposed it to the fresh california air. It leafed out and I thought it was doing great but then it died in the summer, I'm not sure why exactly. It could have been due to the difference in California's dry air compared to NY's humid air. It could have been due to overwintering in the fridge, it could have been due to the root ball drying out much faster then usual as it was still in my east coast soil mix. I do think you can do this type of overwintering though, however a fridge without a temperature control varies quite a bit in a 24 hour period, and a freezer has a freeze/thaw swing. If you want to do it again get a beer control like this http://www.amazon.com/Johnson-Contr...2881&sr=8-1&keywords=beer+temperature+control you put the probe in the fridge and plug your fridge into this and then this into the wall. You can maintain an extremely tight temp range. Just remember to maintain a reasonable relative humidity inside as well.

Glad i'm back where we have a real winter again.

 

[JudyB]

Glad i'm back where we have a real winter again.

Amen to that brother! I can't imagine life without real seasons... And winter is one of my favorites. At least we are having real winter this year, let's see how long it lasts.

 

[GarlR]

Glad it made it thru for you. What are your plans for it? I hope you're planning on potting up to give it room to grow...

Yeah, I just made another post about that. I think I need to put it in a bigger container. (1 or 2 gallon?)

It is a slow growing tree so getting it into something to start thicken the trunk up and let it grow untouched for a few years would do it good. However, it is in all inorganic. (I think volcanic rock) I'd need to buy some more inorganic.

Plus it would be an ideal time to repot it. (beginning of spring) Yes, I know it is technically winter, but it is 72 degrees in my apartment.

@Beng - I only did it for about 1.5 months because I was concerned about it. Refrigerator isn't ideal. Also mine is pretty much a twig, so it doesn't have tons of leaves or need a huge root system to survive. I really didn't need to worry toooooo much if it had enough buds for spring because it is so small. Again, this is all speculation.

 

[rockm]

FWIW, keeping a dormant tree for three months in the refrigerator is not really overwintering, per se. I've done that with saplings ordered online in the winter. You can also store cuttings in plastic bags for a few months this way as long as you keep them moist, too.

Continually overwintering a maple (like a few years) is the test...

 

[Anthony]

Wintering a maple or hackberry or gingko, is easy and works.
My friend and brother-in-law has been doing it since 83 or so.
Just allow the trees to go dormant, and on our side that is late January, then place the tree/soil in a bag [ soil has be moist ] and set the refrigerator to vegetable crisper temperature and leave for two months.

Check on the soil's moisture every two weeks.

Plants come out April 1st in the late evening, and are repotted, placed in a shady spot for a week..

The real trick is, can the plant withstand a growing temperature of around 86 to 90-deg.F and a humidity of say 60 to 80 %.

Since the light is stronger in the West Indies [ caribbean ] trees can be grown well under light to medium shade.
Good Day.
Anthony.

* The trident maple died last year because it got dried out in the fridge.
It was 18 years old and 15 inches tall with a 2.5 inch trunk. Grown from a whip. Source UK.

Lost a hackberry the same way about 8 or so years ago, but a root survived and a new tree was restarted.

Testing junipers now.

 

[Poink88]

Aren't we a crazy bunch? LOL

You are trying to grow deciduous trees in West Indies and I am trying to grow tropical here. It can be done but involves a lot of work and a mistake can be fatal to the tree...a heart breaking event we can avoid by not even trying but it is part of the bonsai lure I guess....

Personally, I am planning on thinning down my trops just so I can still fit the remaining in their winter haven as they mature and spread. It will be tough but has to be done...else I need to find a bigger place which is very unlikely to happen.

 

[Bill S]

All my bonsai have been frozen for almost 3 months, but that doesn't mean much. It's life after the experiment, by the way a month and a half is a bit short I think.

They don't do well if you light them on fire either, if you find that challanging, please video the experiment, so we can watch. That was for the nener nener

 

[Austin]

FWIW, keeping a dormant tree for three months in the refrigerator is not really overwintering, per se. I've done that with saplings ordered online in the winter. You can also store cuttings in plastic bags for a few months this way as long as you keep them moist, too.

Continually overwintering a maple (like a few years) is the test...

Rock I was tlaking to a man who sells cuttings from a web page (I belive it's hybrid poplar something .com I can get you his site if you would like) but he starts tkaing cuttings at the beginning of november until the bud swell in spring, and he's been selling these cuttings for 20 some odd years, he said that the ideal temp for a cutting to be stored at is 28 degrees F ( he has a freezer full of cuttings from various trees that stays at 28 and then he ships them in sets of 10, 50 or 100.

http://hybridpoplars.com/

the conversation I had with him kinda sparked my research, I will make another post concerning my thoughts on the rest of the thread

 

[rockm]

I guess I miss your point...Refrigerators can store living plants for weeks or months. I mean, how long do frozen peas last?...or carrots in the refrigerator? Same thing pretty much as storing cuttings. Lower temps tend to stave off decay, for a while anyway...

This isn't the same thing as refrigerator "dormancy" for a tree though.

 

[Austin]

Wintering a maple or hackberry or gingko, is easy and works.
My friend and brother-in-law has been doing it since 83 or so.
Just allow the trees to go dormant, and on our side that is late January, then place the tree/soil in a bag [ soil has be moist ] and set the refrigerator to vegetable crisper temperature and leave for two months.

Check on the soil's moisture every two weeks.

Plants come out April 1st in the late evening, and are repotted, placed in a shady spot for a week..

The real trick is, can the plant withstand a growing temperature of around 86 to 90-deg.F and a humidity of say 60 to 80 %.

Since the light is stronger in the West Indies [ caribbean ] trees can be grown well under light to medium shade.
Good Day.
Anthony.

* The trident maple died last year because it got dried out in the fridge.
It was 18 years old and 15 inches tall with a 2.5 inch trunk. Grown from a whip. Source UK.

Lost a hackberry the same way about 8 or so years ago, but a root survived and a new tree was restarted.

Testing junipers now.

Alright I am new to bonsai and I started this year in late october by planting seed and digging up 11 trees from outdoors after about a month of cold weather between 32-50 degrees F.

2 of the 11 where placed directly in pots, both of wich died.

the rest spend another month in a fridge, between 20 and 50 degrees F as I had to adjust the temp by hand every day (free fridge with a broken thermostate it's either full on or off)

5 survived from the group of 9 in the fridge, then I let one of the five dry out in it's pot and then it died.

now there is a science behind wintering and what goes on inside the tree they reffer to it's dormancy as "chill hours" (google it)

now you only need about 43 days of time spent within the chill hour zone (32-45 degrees F)
or roughly a month and a week, but I personally would not let them spend less than two months at said temps.

but all research shows that it has nothing to do with light but it's all about temperature that triggers dormancy and the waking process. some may disagree but thats what aboraculturists say about it.

http://bonsainut.com/forums/showthread.php?9934-Hello-I-recently

thats a link to the argument I started over it on the forum. you may find some information there if you read it not just skim thru it, and remember I am new to bonsai but I spent three months or more looking at nothing but wintering a tree and what the tree does for winter.

I personally belive that I will be able to build a unit that will have four seasons even for people in desert or tropical environments, thats what I will be using my fridge for this summer once I cut it apart and master hydroponics.

edit: I originally only wanted to use this for wintering plants from other zones, but now am considering trying to grow them in a system year round after sifting thru this http://bonsaihunk.us/ website but I would have to put in a big window on the south side of my house and some skylights on the east and west sides of my roof to do soo.

read your initial thread, I have kept trees indoors for five months at 20-30% humidity (40+ would have helped them) but they are still alive. including a pine tree.

 

[rockm]

"all about temperature that triggers dormancy and the waking process"

Simply not true. Saying so doesn't get some rather obvious stuff. Claiming that arboriculturalists agree that temperature is a major dormancy trigger isn't true or even close to true.

http://dendro.cnre.vt.edu/forestbiology/htmltext/chapter6.htm
http://www.cbgp.upm.es/en/winter_dormancy.php
http://www.fmr.org/mississippi/phenology/winter_dormancy-2012-11

Temperature plays a small role in triggering dormancy. Shortening daylength is a far, FAR steadier environmental stimulus than seasonal temperatures that can vary wildly from year to year. If trees used temp as a major trigger to enter dormancy, the warmer winter temps in the last few years would have proven to be disastrous for them.

Soil temp IS a major trigger for EXITING dormancy, since trees have no leaves to sense increasing daylength in the spring.