Regarding Wound Healing

0soyoung

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I have an acer palmatum trunk from which I air-layered the top. The following winter it suffered some rather severe dieback. The pattern is, in itself, rather interesting. Notice how the upper branches are green all around the branch collar and that the bark remains green below. The dieback is a vertical strip that extends downward to the collar of a branch below. I think this must reflect the combined flow of photosynthate and auxin in the phloem – I’ve never had another instance so extreme. Aside from the branch collars, the combined flow was largely longitudinal (i.e., vertically downward, toward the roots) with little, if any of it went around the bole.
Regardless, the fact that two shoots/branches at the top of the tree are very nearly opposed is another interesting feature of this ‘stump’. The dieback strips on opposite sides of the bole are, therefore, about as perfectly matched a pair of ‘wounds’ as one will ever find and they are on the same tree!



On 11Mar15 I took this opportunity to test some bonsai wound healing lore instead of moving ahead with trying to make a bonsai of it. I cut the lower right and upper-left callus on what I arbitrarily called side1 and the opposite way, on the reverse side, side2.


I thought about wrapping damp sphagnum in polyethylene sheeting, just like an air layer, but opted to wrap the sphagnum in raffia instead, and to water the wad every time I watered the tree. My only thought about this was that more gas exchange would be possible with raffia - polyethylene does transmit some oxygen. I really doubt that it matters (but I did have quite a bit of trouble wrapping raffia around sphagnum on this vertical bole compare to a split zip-lock bag - maybe with practice …).

I opened up the package on 31May15. The cuts on side1 were still apparent. They were not obvious on side2. No enhanced growth was evident on either side.

I redid the cuts of the ‘lip’ as before, but this time applied lanolin to both sides and covered them with aluminum foil instead.

I looked at them again on 15Sep15. There was a little growth toward closing the wound on side1

And dramatic growth toward closure of the wound on side 2


I see no indication that cutting the callus does anything productive. I don’t see any indication that keeping it damp/wet or under Aluminum foil really matters either. Both wounds were about as identical as one could ever find and my treatments of them were identical, yet one side, side2, closed dramatically more than side1. It is hard for me to understand why, but it is clear that these things of bonsai lore really didn’t do anything to makes the wounds heal faster.
 

sorce

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Oso. Oso. Ooooh. So. Oso!

I fully expected a little more scientific approach from you!

Now we have to understand the inhibiting factors of that nasty black mess on New callous growth.

I wonder if it was lime sulphured, would the results have been different?.

Or left to its own devices.?

Very interesting.

Sorce
 

thumblessprimate1

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Could the roots be a factor? Curious how they are on one side compared to the other. Also, was sunlight even on both sides?
 

aml1014

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I agree with sorce. This being an extremely unscientific experiment I still believe damaging the cambium does speed up healing, it is just a mechanism of how plants grow.
 

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I have some large wounds on my trident that had stopped closing before I reopened the callus and they started moving again.
 

BrianBay9

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...This being an extremely unscientific experiment I still believe damaging the cambium does speed up healing...

I applaud the attempt at an experiment. Most people don't go this far, preferring to just "believe".

It's tough for most of us to find the time and material to really set up a properly controlled, replicated experiment, unless you have a commercial nursery with lots of nearly identical plants available to play with. I have been fortunate to have those resources once. But I found that many people will not accept the results of controlled experiments if they challenge strongly held beliefs. There's always a reason why "you did it wrong". Of course it's possible I did do it wrong. That's why a single, even well done study really needs to be repeated to draw firm conclusions. I've come to the conclusion that one can share such information, but there's no value in continuing to argue the point.

Brian
 

aml1014

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I applaud the attempt at an experiment. Most people don't go this far, preferring to just "believe".

It's tough for most of us to find the time and material to really set up a properly controlled, replicated experiment, unless you have a commercial nursery with lots of nearly identical plants available to play with. I have been fortunate to have those resources once. But I found that many people will not accept the results of controlled experiments if they challenge strongly held beliefs. There's always a reason why "you did it wrong". Of course it's possible I did do it wrong. That's why a single, even well done study really needs to be repeated to draw firm conclusions. I've come to the conclusion that one can share such information, but there's no value in continuing to argue the point.

Brian
Funny thing is there had already been study done to see what's the fastest way to make a wound heal on a plant. Also I do work at a nursery and have done uncountable experiments forhealing plants from the depth of cut and no cut paste to using cut paste. I've also cut branches from circle wounds to pointed wounds with all the same variables and what I've found is , the wounds that come to a point with pruning sealer is by far the most efficient way. So in turn I don't really re cut my wounds to speed them up, I cut them pointed in the first place to get faster healing.
 

BrianBay9

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Excellent! Good to hear about actual, controlled experiments. Would love to see the data sometime.
 

aml1014

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Maybe I should but unfortunately I don't record my results for others I watch and learn for myself. There will always be the guy who says it's there are better ways as I'm being, but that's the thing I'm happy with my experiments and what I learn from them. I've got so many plants to play with at home and at work so I know what works best for me, and I'm able to watch and learn plants growth patterns. There will never be a perfectly controlled experiment of this considering all plants even of the same cultivar have different growth rates.
 

sorce

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Oso knows I expect this to be done in a vacuum !

I must say of course, I do fully appreciate the looks.

Regardless of the controls!

Thanks Oso!

Sorce
 

aml1014

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And a pic of a point prune?
This was a point prune in spring, completely healed over.
And another of a regular cut done at the same time on same plant
 

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aml1014

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Try to think about it like this, take a price of paper made of rubber and make simulated v cut, then cut out a circle and try to see which one has more resistance when you try to manually close the gap, the v cut has less resistance and closes without having to fold anything. That may not be super scientific but it works best for me, and I notice a more smooth heal mark.
 

0soyoung

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Try to think about it like this, take a price of paper made of rubber and make simulated v cut, then cut out a circle and try to see which one has more resistance when you try to manually close the gap, the v cut has less resistance and closes without having to fold anything. That may not be super scientific but it works best for me, and I notice a more smooth heal mark.
Thanks, I'll need to ponder this a bit. I think you are telling me that if I have a cirular wound, it will heal faster if I carve off bark below so that the wound is in an upside-down teardrop. I'm trying to understand why it works. I can understand that the tissues immediately below a circular cut won't be fed well - the flow of photosynthate will tend to pass by this area rather than into it. But why just getting rid of this tissue in the beginning makes it all heal faster is tough (I'm not saying it doesn't - reality is hard:().


The living features of my (UR2) tree are like the flow of a viscous liquid (e.g., Karo syrup) cominging down from the branches, driven just by gravity. Your 'point pruning' also fits with this analog (as the shape of the flow around a circular obstacle). But, in a tree the 'sap' is actually relatively low viscosity and flows through a series of tubes (the phloem). It is kind of 'mind blowing' (I date myself), but this could mean that phloem tubes grow in exactly this pattern - the pattern required to make the flow of photosynthate appear just like Karo syrup! Do they really???

Still, why did side2 grow so much and side1 almost not at all? Or what could I do next season to make side1 grow faster and catch up with side2?
 
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0soyoung

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Could the roots be a factor? Curious how they are on one side compared to the other. Also, was sunlight even on both sides?
I think of roots being the result of the flow of photosynthate from above and not the makers of that flow. Rootage of this pole is extremely good, IMHO. All I can offer as evidence, though, is the forth photo and the photo I posted last spring.

I did rotate it several times through the course of the summer, but it happened on a whim and not a regular schcdule. The pot was propped up on a slope to be flat, but I just eyeballed it and did not check it with a level. I suppose it may have sat in one orientation for an inordinate amount of time this year (or last year, for that matter).
 

drew33998

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Was one side more apically dominant than the other? Did both sides have the same area of leaf margin? Did both sides get the exact same amount of sunlight? All are variables one must examine
 

Stickroot

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Heat is the biggest factor in healing.
Getting dead wood below live tissue by carving is second .
The wound that gets more sun will heal faster. If one was to apply a heating pad on a large wound and not on another the same size, the heated one will heal more than twice as fast.
 
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