Regrowing Better Branching

[dbonsaiw]

So here's a real newb question - when one is ready to develop branching, what is the best way to replace the existing larger branches? For example, I want a branch in the place where a branch is currently growing, but that branch has grown way too fat (and/or with too large internodes). Are these simply pruned back and new shoots allowed to grow from the base of that branch or is there more to this? Is it cut back flush or back to the first node?

The trident maples seem to send out shoots from a stub as well as when I prune it flush. How about JMs?

For a more specific scenario, attached is a pic of a JM tree that is the subject of another thread. I want to eventually grow a new branch to replace the wired branch on the left of the pic so that I have much smaller internodes. A graft is always possible, but is this needed here? How can I accomplish this?

 

[sorce]

@Shibui was talking in another thread about the subtle differences in how trees act with just a different amount of roots from one season to the next.
I believe things this subtle are going to have an impact on where and how new branches will grow.

So IMO, it's best to be prepared to use any and many tactics to achieve the same thing sometimes.

I like the question. Tells more about how you're going to figure this out for real, than with answers to it directly.

Sorce

 

[Shibui]

The trident maples seem to send out shoots from a stub as well as when I prune it flush. How about JMs?

JM usually produce even more prolific shoots at the base of branches so removing thick branches is a great technique. Just leave a short stub so the new buds in the branch collar can grow then trim the stub flush after you select one of the new branches to work with.

New shoots will often have long internodes so you'll have to manage the new shoots carefully to avoid having the same problem again.

 

[WavyGaby]

Eric with Bonsaify put out a video within the last week discussing air layers on his j. Maple. He also discussed how to deal with long internodes. To summarize, when growth is present at the first node, he cuts to the first node. Then hopefully you get growth at the collar. The original branch is then cut back in favor of the new growth at the collar. If no leaves on the branch, he cuts back to two nodes and the process is the same.
Eric recommended this process bc the strongest growth comes from the outer nodes and you can expect shorter growth from the node closest to the trunk.

 

[leatherback]

I find that strong pruning in late spring will trigger a flush of new buds all around the tree. And the resulting growth is slower than when pruned over winter, leading to better internode distances.

 

[dbonsaiw]

Many thanks for the responses. I kinda thought the same, but find I mix up practices for species, stage of development etc. and just wanted to be sure before pruning. Now I can go back to staring at the tree till next spring (you have no idea how hard it is to look at that dead section of trunk and not take it off now).

 

[WavyGaby]

Many thanks for the responses. I kinda thought the same, but find I mix up practices for species, stage of development etc. and just wanted to be sure before pruning. Now I can go back to staring at the tree till next spring (you have no idea how hard it is to look at that dead section of trunk and not take it off now).

Glad to offer help. If that section is dead why not just take it off now and begin healing the scar? What are your plans for the design of this tree? Do you have more photos to show what's going on?

 

[dbonsaiw]

If that section is dead why not just take it off now and begin healing the scar?

This would requiring sawing in a fairly small space. I was afraid I'd destroy what is growing. Also, the back and forth rocking from the saw always manages to move the roots substantially enough for me to wait a little. I'll be honest and admit that I messed up a chop on another tree and was given advice on issues of disturbing sap flow which I don't yet fully understand. So I just went with better safe than sorry. I'll be with this tree until I'm in diapers so I'm not so concerned about losing a season of healing. Open to opposing thoughts.

Do you have more photos to show what's going on?

I'll update later with some pics of the base, but not much going on other than growing.

What are your plans for the design of this tree?

Now that's the million dollar question. I guess it depends on what day you ask me. I know I'd like to keep the tree on the shorter side - no more than 9" and maybe shorter. I discuss my potential choices above.

 

[dbonsaiw]

I discuss my potential choices above.

Turns out I did that in the thread on development of this tree - Acer Homedepotnium #2. I uploaded some additional pics there as well.

 

[WavyGaby]

This would requiring sawing in a fairly small space. I was afraid I'd destroy what is growing. Also, the back and forth rocking from the saw always manages to move the roots substantially enough for me to wait a little. I'll be honest and admit that I messed up a chop on another tree and was given advice on issues of disturbing sap flow which I don't yet fully understand. So I just went with better safe than sorry. I'll be with this tree until I'm in diapers so I'm not so concerned about losing a season of healing. Open to opposing thoughts.

I'll update later with some pics of the base, but not much going on other than growing.

Now that's the million dollar question. I guess it depends on what day you ask me. I know I'd like to keep the tree on the shorter side - no more than 9" and maybe shorter. I discuss my potential choices above.

Do you have knob cutters? You could have some fun chomping away at the base of the dead branch.
I checked out the photos on the other thread. I would also start to address taper and remove multiple branches near the top and focus growth on a single leader. Maybe you style it into a broom or more natural look though.

 

[Shibui]

Eric recommended this process bc the strongest growth comes from the outer nodes and you can expect shorter growth from the node closest to the trunk.

I've had similar results here. I'll often leave a couple of shoots close together. The upper one grows strong while the lower shoot is suppressed, has shorter internodes and often a better emerging angle from the trunk. Leave the strong one until the better branch has developed enough (or until reverse taper threatens) then chop the strong one.

 

[WavyGaby]

Eric with Bonsaify put out a video within the last week discussing air layers on his j. Maple. He also discussed how to deal with long internodes. To summarize, when growth is present at the first node, he cuts to the first node. Then hopefully you get growth at the collar. The original branch is then cut back in favor of the new growth at the collar. If no leaves on the branch, he cuts back to two nodes and the process is the same.
Eric recommended this process bc the strongest growth comes from the outer nodes and you can expect shorter growth from the node closest to the trunk.

Just a minor edit. I said "if no leaves on the branch" but I meant if no leaves on the first two nodes, then cut to two nodes.

 

[dbonsaiw]

Many thanks for all the help. Much has been learned and a game plan seems to be coming together. As for the opposing branch and next steps, Shibui's comments on the other thread resonate with me. Whether or not this branch could be remedied is besides the point as the straight cut will likely not look good in any event. Accordingly, the tree will be chopped next year on an angle and grown into a shohin about 7.5" tall.

This tree was seriously abused last year and I am very grateful it is growing and healthy now. It was also repotted at the entirely wrong time and trunk chopped to no branches this season. IMO, this tree has had enough torture for now and, as I will be pruning next season and for the reasons above, I see no reason to muck with the trunk again now. It's not currently visually appealing, but that will be temporary.