Removing all the old soil or not when repotting elms?

[Ingvill]

Can I remove ALL the old soil when repotting Zelkovas?
The current soil is really bad in every way, and if it's not too risky I would prefer to remove all of it.

And; Once repotted; should I feed them straight away? Or wait a few weeks?

I can't seem to find a straight answer for this when trying to research it on my own.
So I'd really appreciate any feedback

(Some basic info in case it's important to know before replying;
The trees have recently started their spring growth. They appear to be healthy and in good condition.
They are indoors a.t.m because they've never been winter hardy, I bought them late last fall, and they need to remain indoors until approx. mid-late April.
New substrate will be mix of akadama, kiryu & perlite because that's what I have access to at present time.
They will be placed in sizeable grow out boxes with lots of air holes drilled, on a south facing window sill until spring).

 

[Victorim]

Yes you can.

 

[Dav4]

Yes, bare rooting is ok with zelkova and any other deciduous trees, as well. There's generally no major issue beginning to feed right after root work, though the tree's ability to absorb the fertilizer will be compromised until the roots have repaired themselves. I usually wait until the leaves have developed, and I would probably wait longer on more developed stock.

 

[Ingvill]

Ah, excellent!
Thank you so much guys!

Back to sifting akadama then.... @Victorim you live closest, you volunteering?

 

[Victorim]

Ah, excellent!
Thank you so much guys!

Back to sifting akadama then.... @Victorim you live closest, you volunteering?

You across the sea mun!

Just get stuck in will be second nature in no time.

 

[Giga]

I personally don't fully bareroot - I remove all the outlining soil and some of the top and bottom around the base and then refill the pot with bonsai soil. I tend to follow ryan's method of repotting

 

[Adair M]

Ah, excellent!
Thank you so much guys!

Back to sifting akadama then.... @Victorim you live closest, you volunteering?

Pictures would be nice. If these are still in the development stage, you might want to screw them to a board.

See @markyscott thread “Ebihara Maples”.

 

[Adair M]

I personally don't fully bareroot - I remove all the outlining soil and some of the top and bottom around the base and then refill the pot with bonsai soil. I tend to follow ryan's method of repotting

Without knowing anything about the condition, stage of development, or style of the tree, the decision of how to repot is “it depends”.

 

[Ingvill]

Thank you both for your feedback, Adair & Giga

Yes, they are trees in development and I've done no styling/pruning at all since buying them last fall.
I haven't really thought too much about styling yet, these two trees are my first ones.

There were only a couple of trees to choose from when I bought them, and I chose these because they were least expensive and easiest for a beginner.
Bought them mainly to learn how to care for them while waiting on spring, when the shop restock a good number of new trees.

These two pics were taken last fall, they pretty much look the same today (a bit less leaves of course).
Sorry for the poor pic quality, I will take some better ones after work if you would be kind enough to offer some repotting/pot-placement suggestions?
My only thought so far is to place the smallest tree a little tilted in the grow out box to get some movement in the trunk.

And thank you for the Ebihara link, that was a really interesting read!
I think I wanna try to use his method on both of them actually.

 

[Anthony]

Chinese elms or Zelkovas ?

Might be good for them to spend late Spring to early Autumn in
the ground or in a 1/3 of a 55 US gallon plastic barrel.
Good Luck
Anthony

 

[Ingvill]

@Adair M :
Pardon my late update, it's been a chaotic few days for me.
I have taken some better pics this weekend, in case you have any suggestions as to how to repot these in the grow out boxes?
Any ideas are most welcome, not only by Adair of course
(Sorry, I'm still a crappy phtographer, just with a better camera, lol)

@Anthony :
I wasn't sure either, if Zelkova or Chinese Elm, so I asked here on the forum last fall.
The conclusion was they are Zelkovas, as they were labelled when purchased.
Looking at the leaves, I believe they are Zelkovas, but I won't swear on it on any bibles or graves
Thank you so much for your suggestion, but I'm afraid I can't grow anything in the ground until we know if we are gonna sell the house this summer or not....
But in the future, that is definetly something I wanna try

 

[markyscott]

@Adair M :
Pardon my late update, it's been a chaotic few days for me.
I have taken some better pics this weekend, in case you have any suggestions as to how to repot these in the grow out boxes?
Any ideas are most welcome, not only by Adair of course
(Sorry, I'm still a crappy phtographer, just with a better camera, lol)

@Anthony :
I wasn't sure either, if Zelkova or Chinese Elm, so I asked here on the forum last fall.
The conclusion was they are Zelkovas, as they were labelled when purchased.
Looking at the leaves, I believe they are Zelkovas, but I won't swear on it on any bibles or graves
Thank you so much for your suggestion, but I'm afraid I can't grow anything in the ground until we know if we are gonna sell the house this summer or not....
But in the future, that is definetly something I wanna try

Not to dredge up old discussions, but these look like Chinese elm to me. Here’s a comparison of the two side-by-side.


The main difference is the size and shape of the leaf of the zelkova as compared to that of the chinese elm. The leaf on the left is a zelkova, and on the right is a chinese elm. The zelkova tends to be a lot larger. Also, notice the sharp edges and tip of the zelkova. The chinese elm has more of a rounded tip and it has rounded serrated edges. Yours look rounded and small to me:



But it’s irrelevant as to your question. Both can be bare rooted. Yours should be as soon as it’s safe to do so, to get rid of the old soil. These trees are grown in the field and shipped in potting soil. If they were mine, I’d change it out ASAP.

S

 

[Bonsai Nut]

Both can be bare rooted. Yours should be as soon as it’s safe to do so, to get rid of the old soil. These trees are grown in the field and shipped in potting soil. If they were mine, I’d change it out ASAP.

@Ingvill FWIW, Zelkovas ARE elms. They are just different elm species than Chinese elms. I ALWAYS bare root my elms any time I repot. I have never had a problem doing so - as long as I am smart about it (ie don't do it in the middle of the heat of the summer for example).

 

[markyscott]

@Ingvill FWIW, Zelkovas ARE elms. They are just different elm species than Chinese elms. I ALWAYS bare root my elms any time I repot. I have never had a problem doing so - as long as I am smart about it (ie don't do it in the middle of the heat of the summer for example).

It’s true they’re closely related. One is Ulmus parvifolia and the other is Zelcova serrata. They’re both different genus and species, but both are in Ulmaceae, so in the same family.

Scott

 

[Anthony]

There is also Zelkova sinica - hardy to zione 6

https://www.vdberk.com/trees/zelkova-sinica/

Good Day
Anthony

 

[Ingvill]

Thank you guys for your input

(They were labelled Zelkova Serrata upon purchase).

Personally I don't have a preferance between the two species, so if they are in fact Chinese Elms, that part is all good
They are a just slightly tougher/more forgiving than Zelkovas as I understand it, which is great for a rookie like myself.

The issue is that Chinese Elms are illegal to buy/sell/own where I live, due to Dutch Elm Disease.
So I will need to read up thoroughly on the disease, which I know nothing about, and then take proper precautions.

 

[LanceMac10]

Common trick used by importers to skirt restrictions. Definitely Chinese Elm.

 

[Adair M]

Definitely Chinese Elm.

You can bare root them.

 

[Anthony]

Now you know why I pussyfooted around the identification.
Back in the 80's this mis-identification was being used.
Hopefully Dutch Elm Disease will not come to Trinidad.

Once again - no large roots found when we repotted.
Guess the soil mix works for us.
Good Day
Anthony

 

[TomB]

The issue is that Chinese Elms are illegal to buy/sell/own where I live, due to Dutch Elm Disease.

...so importers deliberately mislabel them.

So I will need to read up thoroughly on the disease, which I know nothing about, and then take proper precautions.

Not really. The vector for the fungus, Scolytus elm bark beetles, are unlikely to land on your bonsai because they fly at a greater height (think treetop level). This is a good source if you do want to read up though https://www.forestry.gov.uk/fr/hcou-4u4jcl