Removing male flower buds

Nishant

Shohin
Messages
334
Reaction score
61
Location
London
Hello All,

My Scot pine, like last year, has come up with lots of male flower buds on all the tips.

I was wondering if removing the buds is fine or will make no difference. As I am not sure, I remove only half of them ( lower half ).

My theory for removing them is that doing this will direct energy towards development of needle, foliage and roots. The tree is not in best of its health and so want to save energy where possible. These male flowers delay the formation of needles and last year the needle formation ran into August.

Please share your experience and advise.


Please advise.
 
Last edited:

Japonicus

Masterpiece
Messages
3,819
Reaction score
5,030
Location
Western West Virginia AHS heat zone 6
USDA Zone
6ab
Some pics may help
So I had a similar question with my JWP. ^ They're pollen cones. Replies were mostly no, we don't remove them
nor on any pines at least one said.
On some cultivars of JWP they are purple and I look forward to the beautiful display each year.
I am disappointed years where there are few.

Here are 2 of my JWP one this year, the other years bygone
DSC_6476.JPG

1621024809049.png
 

Potawatomi13

Imperial Masterpiece
Messages
5,434
Reaction score
3,788
Location
Eugene, OR
USDA Zone
8
These grow on new soft stems. Removing can EASILY damage these stems soon to become wood:(. After only 3-4 weeks they dry out and can be brushed off being most careful of new soft immature needles.
 

Wires_Guy_wires

Imperial Masterpiece
Messages
5,075
Reaction score
8,145
Location
Netherlands
Give them a little tap with a red hot glowing nail and they'll probably stop growing and die off.
Producing pollen is not very energy consumptive, they contain nearly no proteins and sugars and they're some of the smallest cells most plants can produce. Those grains travel by wind, so they're best kept small and light.
If you go by weight, I think you could fit roughly one cone full of pollen into one bundle of needles. So energy wise, I don't think it matters a whole lot.
 

Nishant

Shohin
Messages
334
Reaction score
61
Location
London
Give them a little tap with a red hot glowing nail and they'll probably stop growing and die off.
Producing pollen is not very energy consumptive, they contain nearly no proteins and sugars and they're some of the smallest cells most plants can produce. Those grains travel by wind, so they're best kept small and light.
If you go by weight, I think you could fit roughly one cone full of pollen into one bundle of needles. So energy wise, I don't think it matters a whole lot.
Thanks Guy_wire.

I remove the buds by popping them using my finger nails, while holding the candles to prevent from breaking.

Besides energy saving, my other important reason is that the tree waits till the flowering is complete. The needles/candles just wait for flowering cycle to finish and start off somewhere growing in end of July. By the time needles mature it is well into September, leaving little time for root formation.

Can you ( and others ) please share any experience, thoughts, suggestions about this.
 

Bnana

Chumono
Messages
638
Reaction score
660
Location
The Netherlands
USDA Zone
8
Healing the wound you created likely costs more energy than making the pollen would.
The tree decided it had enough energy to make flowers, it probably knows best.
 

Brian Van Fleet

Pretty Fly for a Bonsai Guy
Messages
13,406
Reaction score
41,410
Location
B’ham, AL
USDA Zone
8A
Pollen sacks (male) form at the base of this year’s candles. The cones (seed-bearing) form at the tips of this year’s candles. I remove the cones, but don’t bother with the pollen sacks. Cones mature in 2-3 years, but the sacks will drop off in late spring.
ECD66F81-4D7A-49A4-AA9E-378843F5CAA3.jpeg
 

Japonicus

Masterpiece
Messages
3,819
Reaction score
5,030
Location
Western West Virginia AHS heat zone 6
USDA Zone
6ab
Pollen sacks (male) form at the base of this year’s candles. The cones (seed-bearing) form at the tips of this year’s candles. I remove the cones, but don’t bother with the pollen sacks. Cones mature in 2-3 years, but the sacks will drop off in late spring.
View attachment 374734
Thanks Brian. This is my 1st Spring with that cultivar with the "cones" Azuma Goyo.
The colour has darkened to a more purple than purplish pink, as it ages.
However, the pollen cones on the other cultivar, one of the Azumas I believe,
are pretty much same colour, but not only at the tips but all along the watch tower.
I thought it was odd that the cones were only at the tips and in pairs 🤦‍♂️
 

Potawatomi13

Imperial Masterpiece
Messages
5,434
Reaction score
3,788
Location
Eugene, OR
USDA Zone
8
Thanks Brian. This is my 1st Spring with that cultivar with the "cones" Azuma Goyo.
The colour has darkened to a more purple than purplish pink, as it ages.
However, the pollen cones on the other cultivar, one of the Azumas I believe,
are pretty much same colour, but not only at the tips but all along the watch tower.
I thought it was odd that the cones were only at the tips and in pairs 🤦‍♂️
Some say this is so trees do not self pollinate with cones growing above pollen source🧐.
 

Nishant

Shohin
Messages
334
Reaction score
61
Location
London
Hello All, just bringing this topic up again. I was wondering if there is something one can start doing in advance prevent formation of pollen sacs.

One option I can think of is to pinch/trim the buds and let the new buds that form, as is done for autumn pinching. These buds will definitely not form pollen. but this leads to early bluish needles which I think fall within an year if I am right and will leave a neck anyway.

I was just wondering about the second option that once the buds form completely, cut them in half at this stage. May be a damaged bud would not form the pollen.

mat what stage does tree decide to weather the bud will swell into a needles or pollen.

High nitrogen feed to encourage needles would be a bad idea since pollens form in mature tree and no one would want long shoots in mature bonsai.

Many thanks for your inputs and sharing experiences
 

Bnana

Chumono
Messages
638
Reaction score
660
Location
The Netherlands
USDA Zone
8
What is wrong with having pollen sacks developing on your trees?
 

Nishant

Shohin
Messages
334
Reaction score
61
Location
London
I just have a choice. So I want to pollens on some but not all the tips.
 

Forsoothe!

Imperial Masterpiece
Messages
6,878
Reaction score
9,084
Location
Michigan
USDA Zone
6b
Doss it take two years to mature cones on JWP? In other words, do they have crops of mature seeds every-other-year with an off year of no seeds in-between years?
 

Nishant

Shohin
Messages
334
Reaction score
61
Location
London
Doss it take two years to mature cones on JWP? In other words, do they have crops of mature seeds every-other-year with an off year of no seeds in-between years?
Hello Forsoothe!, I am new to bonsai so may not appreciate but can you please tell me how is your question related to my question about preventing bare necks in branches from pollen sacks?
 

Forsoothe!

Imperial Masterpiece
Messages
6,878
Reaction score
9,084
Location
Michigan
USDA Zone
6b
The kinds of people who can answer your technical question about the genus can also answer my technical question which will add to the knowledge storehouse of everybody who is interested in the genus and watching this thread. Conspicuous by it's presence was a reference to JWP in the first response, -which found no objections.
 

Nishant

Shohin
Messages
334
Reaction score
61
Location
London
The kinds of people who can answer your technical question about the genus can also answer my technical question which will add to the knowledge storehouse of everybody who is interested in the genus and watching this thread. Conspicuous by it's presence was a reference to JWP in the first response, -which found no objections.
So why not start your own thread ? Your question is unrelated. Every thread is a source of knowledge so I could have put my question in any random thread. Why do I have to take the trouble of searching my old thread to put follow-up question there. The post your are referring in this thread above (#2 ) discusses the same situation for JWP so in a way sharing a fair possible answer to my original question. I see that as a good attempt to answer to my original question.

Your question is far from my original question. You cannot take that #2 as a reason to start a discussion about very JWP when my original question is about Scot pine. There are hundreds of thread on JWP. Why not ask there.
 
Last edited:

Forsoothe!

Imperial Masterpiece
Messages
6,878
Reaction score
9,084
Location
Michigan
USDA Zone
6b
I'll try to restrain myself, but begin with informing you that this is a worldwide forum.
fo·rum/ˈfôrəm/ 1. a place, meeting, or medium where ideas and views on a particular issue can be exchanged. Eg.: "it will be a forum for consumers to exchange their views on bonsai issues"
In this case somewhere in the vicinity of 18 thousand people in 200 countries exchange ideas.

Did the Queen die and pass the crown on to you? Exactly where do you get the authority to banish others from your private thread? Perhaps you misnamed this thread. Maybe it would be more private if you named it, "Nishant's anal retentive removing male flower buds, others need not apply". If that were the case I would have avoided it, and you.

I'll let you when you can bully me. And I will watch for threads by you, just in case you need a reminder that you are not, The Queen, regardless of your other attributes and shortcomings. Meanwhile, go pound sand.
 

Potawatomi13

Imperial Masterpiece
Messages
5,434
Reaction score
3,788
Location
Eugene, OR
USDA Zone
8
Hello Forsoothe!, I am new to bonsai so may not appreciate but can you please tell me how is your question related to my question about preventing bare necks in branches from pollen sacks?
Inquiring minds wish to know. I find this question relevant and interesting and internet search did not answer question. Perhaps one here actually knows.
 

Brian Van Fleet

Pretty Fly for a Bonsai Guy
Messages
13,406
Reaction score
41,410
Location
B’ham, AL
USDA Zone
8A
Hello All, just bringing this topic up again. I was wondering if there is something one can start doing in advance prevent formation of pollen sacs.

One option I can think of is to pinch/trim the buds and let the new buds that form, as is done for autumn pinching. These buds will definitely not form pollen. but this leads to early bluish needles which I think fall within an year if I am right and will leave a neck anyway.

I was just wondering about the second option that once the buds form completely, cut them in half at this stage. May be a damaged bud would not form the pollen.
This will not work. Male pollen sacks form as the candle elongates in the spring, so eliminating the undifferentiated bud in the fall eliminates the entire shoot for the next spring. Damaging the bud by cutting it in half in the fall would likely deform or kill the bud you need for extension next spring. Best to let nature do it’s thing, it really isn’t that big a deal. Healthy and strong JWP won’t produce long “necks” on their shoots, and if the occasional one develops, the tree should have plenty of other options to replace it with.

JWP cones take 2 years to fully mature, but each year they set new cones. So, left to their own devices, a JWP will usually have some immature cones developing, and last year’s mature cones shedding in late summer-fall. This year I left a few to develop on my ‘Zuisho’ just for fun. I have no idea if they’re viable, and if so what even pollinated them.
 
Top Bottom