Repotted shimpaku

[PagsMuny]

hello all,

I recently purchased a shimpaku. The tree was recently repotted in April/ May of 2020 along with its first styling. When I purchased the tree the seller told me not to let the tree freeze. My question is how long after the repot can the tree freeze. I am keeping the tree in an unheated garage for the time being and find it extremely unmanageable being that I live in upstate NY.

1. can the tree freeze (it already has a few times)

2. Do I need to bring it inside for a couple of hours when temps drop below 23°F?

thanks,

 

[Forsoothe!]

Sounds like he meant no freezing (of the roots) in that late spring. The upper part of the tree should be pretty hardy, but upstate NY is a pretty loose term. When you get into a solid zone 3 micro-climate matters. A lot. You need to describe your location better along with if you have a protected site with buildings or whatnot deflecting winds, or out on a farm with a tree line every half mile. The difference can be night and day. We could make assumptions, but you probably don't need generalities. Do you have a protected site where you could sink the pot to the edge of the pot and mulch up to the bottom skirt of the canopy with Oak leaves? Protected means less direct wind, and/or dappled sun, like sun through branches without leaves, where it can get some precipitation, but not buried in a snow bank. In a landscape between shrubs at the base of building facing east or west would be nice. Help us help you.

 

[PagsMuny]

Sounds like he meant no freezing (of the roots) in that late spring. The upper part of the tree should be pretty hardy, but upstate NY is a pretty loose term. When you get into a solid zone 3 micro-climate matters. A lot. You need to describe your location better along with if you have a protected site with buildings or whatnot deflecting winds, or out on a farm with a tree line every half mile. The difference can be night and day. We could make assumptions, but you probably don't need generalities. Do you have a protected site where you could sink the pot to the edge of the pot and mulch up to the bottom skirt of the canopy with Oak leaves? Protected means less direct wind, and/or dappled sun, like sun through branches without leaves, where it can get some precipitation, but not buried in a snow bank. In a landscape between shrubs at the base of building facing east or west would be nice. Help us help you.

Thanks for the insight! No I’m actually moving in about a month into a house of my own. I don’t have access to much property where I am now and I can’t go digging up my landlords yard. Right now I have it in an unheated garage. I live about an hour north of New York City. Temperatures are said to drop to about 7° tomorrow night. The gentleman that sold me the tree was very specific about telling me I can’t let the roots freeze this winter. I have heard many people say you can’t let it freeze right after a repot but they all fail to mention how long after a repot can the roots then freeze.

 

[Forsoothe!]

You are in a very small box. The plant needs to be about 35°F to achieve a productive quiet period (~33 to 39°). They are listed as hardy from 4a to 9, so that confounds my understanding of how cold, how long. Although, all plants adapt to zones so maybe if grown from youth they may require less cold and shorter quiet periods. We need to hear from a zone 9 person about that. If that plant came from warm zone and you take it 4a it may take years to adapt and always be susceptible to freeze damage. So, where did it grow up?

Options: If you are in the 3 feet of yesterday's snow territory, make a deep pocket, put the tree in a box that will prevent the canopy from crushing, and bury the box under a foot of snow. Snow is an insulator, and the temp will not cycle day to night. Or, you could buy a heat mat (for seeds) and set it to ~33°. The media should be neither bone dry nor wet. In a garage it will need some watering every 3 or 4 weeks. That's some water, just enough to wet the crown and core of the media mass. ( Remember, the lower the ambient humidity, the higher the evaporation rate.)

You might call the seller for history and follow-up advice.

 

[sorce]

I let mine freeze like a breakdancer and they move every spring.

Welcome to Crazy!

Sorce

 

[PagsMuny]

You are in a very small box. The plant needs to be about 35°F to achieve a productive quiet period (~33 to 39°). They are listed as hardy from 4a to 9, so that confounds my understanding of how cold, how long. Although, all plants adapt to zones so maybe if grown from youth they may require less cold and shorter quiet periods. We need to hear from a zone 9 person about that. If that plant came from warm zone and you take it 4a it may take years to adapt and always be susceptible to freeze damage. So, where did it grow up?

Options: If you are in the 3 feet of yesterday's snow territory, make a deep pocket, put the tree in a box that will prevent the canopy from crushing, and bury the box under a foot of snow. Snow is an insulator, and the temp will not cycle day to night. Or, you could buy a heat mat (for seeds) and set it to ~33°. The media should be neither bone dry nor wet. In a garage it will need some watering every 3 or 4 weeks. That's some water, just enough to wet the crown and core of the media mass. ( Remember, the lower the ambient humidity, the higher the evaporation rate.)

You might call the seller for history and follow-up advice.

Okay I just bought a heat mat I’ll need one eventually anyway. I didn’t know they were easily accessible. I think I’ll move the tree inside for the night. The difference in temperature shouldn’t matter if only a couple of hours. I think you need about 3 days at above 40 to break dormancy. Correct?

 

[PagsMuny]

I let mine freeze like a breakdancer and they move every spring.

Welcome to Crazy!

Sorce

Haha you’re brave. I bought it 3 hours south of where I live so the temperature difference isn’t huge. 5-10°

 

[PagsMuny]

I let mine freeze like a breakdancer and they move every spring.

Welcome to Crazy!

Sorce

Where do you live?

 

[sorce]

Where do you live?

Berrrrrrwyn. Just outside Chicago.

Sorce

 

[PA_Penjing]

I almost posted something similar to this yesterday. I never did much in the way of winter protection but I'm hearing more and more not to let trees freeze that had any work done. Can't find any decent sources or articles though. It's a little embarrassing to admit I have been doing this for years and didn't know that spring repots meant winter protection, or that summer/fall styling meant winter protection. I'm sure it's hard to quantify, but the curious part of me wishes someone would try. The good news (for you) is that I haven't knowingly lost any trees to winter cold despite letting them freeze hard after a repot. Hardy species of course.. wouldn't try it with anything that was already susceptible

 

[leatherback]

all plants adapt to zones so maybe if grown from youth they may require less cold and shorter quiet periods. We need to hear from a zone 9 person about that. If that plant came from warm zone and you take it 4a it may take years to adapt and always be susceptible to freeze damage

This is not how plants work.

 

[PagsMuny]

I almost posted something similar to this yesterday. I never did much in the way of winter protection but I'm hearing more and more not to let trees freeze that had any work done. Can't find any decent sources or articles though. It's a little embarrassing to admit I have been doing this for years and didn't know that spring repots meant winter protection, or that summer/fall styling meant winter protection. I'm sure it's hard to quantify, but the curious part of me wishes someone would try. The good news (for you) is that I haven't knowingly lost any trees to winter cold despite letting them freeze hard after a repot. Hardy species of course.. wouldn't try it with anything that was already susceptible

I’m glad we are finding some common curiosity. This tree however was quite pricey. I prefer to build not buy but it’s nice to have a couple of trees that are more refined so that you can admire them in the midst of working on your other trees. I heard shimpaku are quite tough and resistant to a variety of conditions that would otherwise be a detriment to other species. If a tree was repotted at the correct time of year and you strike the balance of water and oxygen in the root system the tree should have recovered all summer and fall when it was adding vascular tissue. If that isn’t the case I guess I will just have to protect it every couple years after a repot... I guess it’s part of the process but can be a pain in the ass.

 

[Japonicus]

I probably have more juniper than any other species and I've never given thought to Winter protection due to prior Spring work
but I typically huddle most of my plants in pots (be it bonsai pots or nursery pots) under my sunroom.

I’m actually moving in about a month into a house of my own.

There perhaps, you can put this on the ground and mulch the pot over.
If you're really concerned beyond that, considering the above normal Winter temperature outlook
for Jan/Feb, you could heal the pot into the ground and mulch, but I'm sure just mulching the pot
over, on the ground will suffice. My shimpaku I potted up for the 1st time since I bought it in 2008
has frozen several times already, and is still on my deck well above ground.
I certainly would not bring it indoors for a couple of hours, anywhere in my house.

Was your tree healthy putting on good growth going into Fall?

 

[Vance Wood]

hello all,

I recently purchased a shimpaku. The tree was recently repotted in April/ May of 2020 along with its first styling. When I purchased the tree the seller told me not to let the tree freeze. My question is how long after the repot can the tree freeze. I am keeping the tree in an unheated garage for the time being and find it extremely unmanageable being that I live in upstate NY.

1. can the tree freeze (it already has a few times)

2. Do I need to bring it inside for a couple of hours when temps drop below 23°F?

thanks,

As is the case with most of these bonsai dealers they do not know what they are talking about and get most of their material from Florida. Shimpaku is a temperate region tree and need freezing winters to thrive. If they don't get them they will go into decline.

 

[PagsMuny]

I probably have more juniper than any other species and I've never given thought to Winter protection due to prior Spring work
but I typically huddle most of my plants in pots (be it bonsai pots or nursery pots) under my sunroom.

There perhaps, you can put this on the ground and mulch the pot over.
If you're really concerned beyond that, considering the above normal Winter temperature outlook
for Jan/Feb, you could heal the pot into the ground and mulch, but I'm sure just mulching the pot
over, on the ground will suffice. My shimpaku I potted up for the 1st time since I bought it in 2008
has frozen several times already, and is still on my deck well above ground.
I certainly would not bring it indoors for a couple of hours, anywhere in my house.

Was your tree healthy putting on good growth going into Fall?

Okay I didn’t have it long enough to know what sort of growth it had. I got it the week before thanksgiving.

 

[PagsMuny]

As is the case with most of these bonsai dealers they do not know what they are talking about and get most of their material from Florida. Shimpaku is a temperate region tree and need freezing winters to thrive. If they don't get them they will go into decline.

Yeah I think they got it originally from one of the Carolinas. Would the Carolinas give it the 40 days of below 40° that they need to have an adequate rest period?... idk but I think I will just allow it to freeze then and trust all the feedback that I’m getting. I could see why you wouldn’t allow it to freeze in an early spring repot where the tips don’t have the chance to grow and callus but if you look at air layers they can be ready to separate in 2 months given the right conditions and the size of the foliage mass needed to be sustained by the roots. This tells me that the roots over the summer and fall probably would have been able to do that given the tree is potted in the correct medium.

 

[Japonicus]

Okay I didn’t have it long enough to know what sort of growth it had. I got it the week before thanksgiving.

It looks fairly healthy from the one picture we see, but honestly it's not a good picture, but even if it were
nobody knows if the growth has been stymied some. Runners on the tips are what
would prove a good recovery, and there seems to be some decent new growth.
I think you're good, but consider that garage next week...

I know the overall Winter is forecasted to be above normal, but Thursday we have an Arctic blast coming in,
and expecting the 1st white Christmas in 8 years here. Mine will be protected out of the wind
and under the sunroom. This will be our coldest weather so far. I feel sorry for the folks in Boston
that just had the flooding with Winter storm Gail coming in and the cold that followed.

So haw many trees do you have to Winter? Again, bringing it indoors would not be a good choice.
Maybe in the Summer now n then for a few hours...

 

[Vance Wood]

It looks fairly healthy from the one picture we see, but honestly it's not a good picture, but even if it were
nobody knows if the growth has been stymied some. Runners on the tips are what
would prove a good recovery, and there seems to be some decent new growth.
I think you're good, but consider that garage next week...

I know the overall Winter is forecasted to be above normal, but Thursday we have an Arctic blast coming in,
and expecting the 1st white Christmas in 8 years here. Mine will be protected out of the wind
and under the sunroom. This will be our coldest weather so far. I feel sorry for the folks in Boston
that just had the flooding with Winter storm Gail coming in and the cold that followed.

So haw many trees do you have to Winter? Again, bringing it indoors would not be a good choice.
Maybe in the Summer now n then for a few hours...

Bring it indoors will kill it

 

[leatherback]

Junipers that have been repotted in spring have recovered in December, no problems.
My ittoigawa do not get any protection ever. No problems. Then again, the coldest they have seen here is night time drops to around 0F.

Trees that live in a warm part of the country and are moved to colder parts of the country are frost-ready if they get a normal fall. Trees do not have a memory of previous winters, and do not adjust their behavior/sensitivity on past experiences. Only if a tree is descendant of a population of trees that was in a warmer part of their range their cold-hardiness might be less. (Azalea's are e.g., well known for this, and claims are made about Chinese Elms). I have not heard this about juniperus.

 

[Japonicus]

Bring it indoors will kill it

That's why I said it would not be a good choice and I would never in another post.