Repotting and half bare rooting pines

Bolero

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Well, I guess I've worn out my welcome here.
I was hoping this forum would allow the free flow of ideas regarding bonsai, but apparently, it's get with the akadama program newbie or gtfo.
May all your trees live long and prosper.

Hey there Uncle Robo….Don't go away Mad or Disillusioned, this is the Best Bonsai Forum on the Internet...
Source, Adair, V.Wood, Mach5, BVF, Smoke, and Many others that I haven't mentioned are the Absolute Best of the Bonsai World... however they are also Outspoken, Opinionated, but almost always Right in what they say and Advise/// Special note****Uncle Robo just pull down your shield and keep welding its all good and so are you.....Bolero
 

Wires_Guy_wires

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Well, I guess I've worn out my welcome here.
I was hoping this forum would allow the free flow of ideas regarding bonsai, but apparently, it's get with the akadama program newbie or gtfo.
May all your trees live long and prosper.
I'm all against akadama as many people are. I'm all for perlite, and many people can show me I shouldn't. I'm all for lavarock, but most people in my country despise the stuff. I'm right and so are they.
I get their arguments and I see why they have those arguments. I just have my own as well, and they're sound. THAT is the lesson; it's not just about right or wrong, it's about the underlying reason why everyone is both right and wrong.. It depends..
And yeah, if you don't get that program, life on the forum is tough.
Soils is a heated topic for the sole reason that everyone has their own adaptation for their own location and species. That's never going to change and everyone is prepared to defend their own mix in combat.
It's your choice to run into the flames, or just watch it from a distance, but this fire isn't going out in the next 20 years.
 

Palmer67

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The HBR process was popularized by Boon. Boon Mix soil works very well for bonsai, but transitioning from traditional nursery soil to Boon Mix can lead to problems if not done correctly.

All that BS about the core, and it being the “heartbeat” of the tree is just that, BS. There are usually thick roots there with no feeders. How can that be the “heartbeat”?

Roots serve two purposes for a tree. One, they affix the tree into the soil. “Tap roots” hold the tree in place and support the tree and keep it from being blown over. We don’t need tap roots for bonsai because we tie the trees into the pits using wire. The tree should be tied in very securely, no wiggle at all. A tree that wiggles in the pot will have a difficult time growing new feeder roots as they are extremely tiny and fragile. Wiggle the tree in the soil, and you damage the new feeder roots.

The second purpose of the roots is to take up water and nutrients. This is done by the feeder roots. The mire feeder roots you have, the better the tree can absorb water and nutrients. A solid “shin” with all heavy roots, or compacted soil is just taking up valuable space in the pot that could be filled with feeder roots! You might as well bury a rock in there for all the good it does.

So, an ideal root ball is one that has a radial surface root system which break up into multiple smaller roots which in turn exploded into a mass of fibrous roots with feeders. An open, granular, well draining soil allows for oxygen and water to reach the roots. Every time the tree is watered, as the water passes down thru the soil, air is pulled down into the soil, pulling in oxygen to the roots.

Root rot occurs where anaerobic bacteria and fungus take over. Those live in the absence of oxygen. That means if your soil pulls in air, and oxygen, you won’t get root rot. A solid “shin” that is hard to get fresh water and air into is far more likely to develop root rot because of the lack of oxygen.

So... how do we transition to use a good inorganic bonsai Mix such as Boon Mix?

First off, let’s perform this procedure in the late winter/early spring when most trees will begin emerging from winter dormancy.

Let’s assume we are starting with a typical nursery can. They are usually deeper than a bonsai pot. It’s usually safe to simply saw the bottom half of the existing root ball off entirely. Then reduce the remaining rootball by removing any and all circling roots. All circling roots!

Inspect the bottom of the rootball. Identify the large “tap” roots growing staring down. Use a chop stick to probe around them and dig out the soil around them so you can see if there are any branchlets up higher closer to the trunk. Try to cut the heavy tap roots off shorter if you can.

Using a 3 pronged root fork, scrape across the bottom of the root ball. This should loosen some soil, and help you identify any more heavy, downward growing roots. Cut off the downward growing roots with root pruners or concave pruners. Then trim the remainder of the root ball flat with shears. Try to get it as smooth as possible.

Now set the tree upright on the flat bottom. Using bent tip tweezers and a root hook if necessary, comb the top of the root ball from trunk (nebari) out towards the edge. Scrape in one direction: from the trunk, out radially. Turn the tree around as you do this. You will almost surely find more long circling roots. Cut these off with sharp scissors.

Continue to work around, your goal is to create a slight slope down from the nebari to the edge of the rootball. Trim any upward growing roots off flat with the surface.

Now for the edges: using the bent tip tweezers, remove 3/4 of the soil all around the sides of the rootball. Any roots that extend beyond 3/4 inch, trim off with sharp scissors.

NOW, the HBR begins!

Select one half of the root ball to bare root. If could be any half, one side or the other. Front, back, left or right. I generally choose the weakest half. Using your bent tip tweezers, and root hook, remove as much soil as you can from that half. You will try to leave as many roots intact as possible, just remove the soil. If you need to, you can wash soil off with water, just be careful to leave the other side intact. It will probably require several iterations of washing, picking, washing, picking, washing... try to get all the way under 1/2 of the trunk. You will probably find more heavy tap roots that you can remove as you do this process.

So, when you are done, you have a rootball with soil on one side, with small roots sticking out 3/4 inch. The other side has a skeleton of roots! With lots of thinner roots.

Prepare the new pot, place soil in the bottom, build a mound of new soil, and scrunch the rootball into the mound. Tie it in securely. Now backfill with soil. Use chopsticks to gently push new soil into all the voids between the roots.

On the side that was not bare rooted, remember we left small roots hanging out? These are important. Make sure they get surrounded by the new mix. Use chop sticks to make sure they extend into the new mix.

Fill the pot up to the nebari with new soil. IMPORTANT STEP: with one hand push down on the nebari, with the other hand, tap the side of the pot with the meat of your fist a couple of times. Do all four sides. You will be amazed how this “settles” he soil! You’ll probably have to add more soil on top. Smooth the soil out level. NO mounding! The top of the soil should be about 1/4 inch below the rim of the pot. This assures all the water that hits the soil will stay in the pot and not run off.

Water until the run off water is clear.

Water every day. At first, you may need to water throughly to keep the old side moist as the new soil will drain very quickly. When new feeder roots start to grow, the new soil will still drain well, but not as fast as when brand new. At that time, the difference between the new and old soil is not as great, and you won’t have to worry about keeping the old half watered as much. Also, the tree will start using the HBR side more.

You can HBR the other side the following year, or wait another year if you like.

I have HBR’ed dozens of trees with 100% success.
Jesus! My knowledge meter just went up 2 points. Thanks Adair, you rock.
 

Bolero

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I'm all against akadama as many people are. I'm all for perlite, and many people can show me I shouldn't. I'm all for lavarock, but most people in my country despise the stuff. I'm right and so are they.
I get their arguments and I see why they have those arguments. I just have my own as well, and they're sound. THAT is the lesson; it's not just about right or wrong, it's about the underlying reason why everyone is both right and wrong.. It depends..
And yeah, if you don't get that program, life on the forum is tough.
Soils is a heated topic for the sole reason that everyone has their own adaptation for their own location and species. That's never going to change and everyone is prepared to defend their own mix in combat.
It's your choice to run into the flames, or just watch it from a distance, but this fire isn't going out in the next 20 years.

You've Nailed it, well done...….
 

Adair M

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While i get what you are trying to say. But to say there is a best anything is wrong. I hope you dont take this the wrong way you do amazing work. Trees i hope to one day be as good as.

However, for as amazing as your work is, if you were too just up and move half a way around the world you would have to change your routine and how you cared for your trees if you wanted to keep up the same level of amazing.

What is good for one is not good for all.
Akadama is supposed to break down.

Boon has students all over the world, in every climate, who use his mix successfully. I personally know some in Minnesota, New York, Utah, Oregon, Connecticut, Florida, Australia, and, yes, Japan, who all use his mix. The results they have are the evidence that it works.

If you can’t get akadama, no problem. A 50/50 mix of lava and pumice will work, too, you’ll just have to water more often. The key is the mix should be all inorganic, and sieved to the same size particle. Round particles are preferred to “sharp” particles as a mix of round particles holds
......actually, they disagree often....
we might disagree on some minutia, but we’re both singing from the same hymnal.
 

Adair M

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My rant with Sorce isn’t about soils, per se, it’s about spreading misinformation.

On another thread, I mentioned how all the old books are wrong when they say to wrap wire at a 45 degree angle across the branch. They’re wrong. It should be at about 60 degrees.

Those of us with practical experience are trying to make it easier for the new people in the hobby. It’s easy for someone new to try bonsai, get bad advice, have their tree die, and they get frustrated and quit. We, the BonsaiNut community have the opportunity to guide people in a manner that they can be successful from the start.

Like the BS tag line: “If you’re not killing trees, you’re not doing bonsai”. That’s utter BS. Sure, we all lose trees occasionally. But when I lose one, it’s because I did something stupid like forget to water it or something.
 

Adair M

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My information isn't mis.

It's not total yet, but it isn't mis.

Different, but not mis.

Sorce. But not mis.

Sorce
Yes, mis. You implied that it was ok if your soil stayed too wet at the bottom of the pot and root rot occurred there because other parts of the pot dried out, and thus kept the tree alive.

Come on, man...
 

Vance Wood

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Killing trees won’t make you an artist.

The thing about bonsai is it is an art, as well as a craft. But, and this is an important “but”, you can’t be a successful artist in bonsai unless you develop your “craft” skills first. Because the craft skills are how to keep trees alive. It don’t matter how pretty your dead tree is, it’s dead.

So, basic things like repotting, basic wiring, watering, fertilizing, winter protection... all those boring “craft” skills have to be learned and put into practice. Only then can the “Art” happen.

Now, here’s another thing... the “craft” skills have been figured out. There’s no mystery to solve. No experimentation required. All that shit’s been done! All you have to do is find someone else who has learned it, and learn it from them. Do what they do!

Once you have that basic “craft” skills mastered, THEN you’re free to be artistic!

Everyone wants to go straight to the “art” part first. Well, that’s what creates a pile of dead trees behind the fence!

Look, by now you should realize the best soil is akadama/pumice/lava. Not that Napa crap. All the top trees at the Nationals are using some variant of APL. It’s proven. No experimentation is needed. Use it, you have a healthy root system. No worries. Now you’re freed up to make art. But, no, you’d rather resist, do it YOUR way. Why? Why waste energy on something that’s dubious, when there is a proven “best practice”?

I really don’t get why you make it so hard.
I don't really get why some of you guys still insist that Akadama is the be all and end all in bonsai soil.
 

Adair M

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I don't really get why some of you guys still insist that Akadama is the be all and end all in bonsai soil.
Akadama has some great properties for bonsai. It’s not a requirement, however. Used properly, trees will thrive in it.

Why I like it, and use it: when fresh, it has round particles, and when combined with lava and pumice, a freshly repotted tree will have lots of pores that make it easy for roots to grow into. The coarse structure promotes rapid root growth, which, of course, is what you want after repotting, Rapid root growth.

Later, when roots hit the walls of the pot, and the easy route is taken, the root system has to find other ways to grow. Well, the akadama is softer that lava and pumice, and the roots are attracted to it because the akadama absorbs water. Roots grow to find water. So, the roots grab onto the akadama particles. And begin to break it down. Which creates more spaces for the roots to grow into!

Also consider: many trees are reported I. The spring. They have a minimal requirement for lots of water, they have no leaves. But, as the year goes by, maples and elms produce lots of leaves, with broad surfaces, and they need more water. The akadama absorbs more water as it breaks down, thus providing a soil that can hold more water when the tree needs mire water!

This is why in Japan mist deciduous trees are potted in straight akadama, and are repotted every year.

For pines, the root growth is not as aggressive as deciduous, and they don’t need as much water as deciduous, so akadama lasts longer. Usually about 5 years or so.

Akadama is unique in that it changes (breaks down) as the tree grows in the pot. To recap: when fresh, it promotes rapid root growth. As it breaks diwn, it holds more water. Slowing root growth. As bonsai trees get refined, we don’t want all it if new growth, we want just enough to maintain the established style. Rank root growth promotes rank foliage growth. So, a soil that limits growth is desired. And akadama does that by holding water so roots don’t have to grow to find it. And, being inorganic, it doesn’t rot and decay and promote root rot. Sure, if you neglect repotting for too long it will be mush, but about every 5 years for conifers seems to be about right. Kinda like you have to periodically change the oil in your car!
 

sorce

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Yes, mis. You implied that it was ok if your soil stayed too wet at the bottom of the pot and root rot occurred there because other parts of the pot dried out, and thus kept the tree alive.

Come on, man...

I said didn't smell like root rot.

Roots rotted away yes.

But not to the fungus.

Not be detrimentally.

Plus the good part stays excellent.

I'm not lying, so how can what I know be misinformation?

Sorce
 

crust

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The HBR process was popularized by Boon. Boon Mix soil works very well for bonsai, but transitioning from traditional nursery soil to Boon Mix can lead to problems if not done correctly.

All that BS about the core, and it being the “heartbeat” of the tree is just that, BS. There are usually thick roots there with no feeders. How can that be the “heartbeat”?

Roots serve two purposes for a tree. One, they affix the tree into the soil. “Tap roots” hold the tree in place and support the tree and keep it from being blown over. We don’t need tap roots for bonsai because we tie the trees into the pits using wire. The tree should be tied in very securely, no wiggle at all. A tree that wiggles in the pot will have a difficult time growing new feeder roots as they are extremely tiny and fragile. Wiggle the tree in the soil, and you damage the new feeder roots.

The second purpose of the roots is to take up water and nutrients. This is done by the feeder roots. The mire feeder roots you have, the better the tree can absorb water and nutrients. A solid “shin” with all heavy roots, or compacted soil is just taking up valuable space in the pot that could be filled with feeder roots! You might as well bury a rock in there for all the good it does.

So, an ideal root ball is one that has a radial surface root system which break up into multiple smaller roots which in turn exploded into a mass of fibrous roots with feeders. An open, granular, well draining soil allows for oxygen and water to reach the roots. Every time the tree is watered, as the water passes down thru the soil, air is pulled down into the soil, pulling in oxygen to the roots.

Root rot occurs where anaerobic bacteria and fungus take over. Those live in the absence of oxygen. That means if your soil pulls in air, and oxygen, you won’t get root rot. A solid “shin” that is hard to get fresh water and air into is far more likely to develop root rot because of the lack of oxygen.

So... how do we transition to use a good inorganic bonsai Mix such as Boon Mix?

First off, let’s perform this procedure in the late winter/early spring when most trees will begin emerging from winter dormancy.

Let’s assume we are starting with a typical nursery can. They are usually deeper than a bonsai pot. It’s usually safe to simply saw the bottom half of the existing root ball off entirely. Then reduce the remaining rootball by removing any and all circling roots. All circling roots!

Inspect the bottom of the rootball. Identify the large “tap” roots growing staring down. Use a chop stick to probe around them and dig out the soil around them so you can see if there are any branchlets up higher closer to the trunk. Try to cut the heavy tap roots off shorter if you can.

Using a 3 pronged root fork, scrape across the bottom of the root ball. This should loosen some soil, and help you identify any more heavy, downward growing roots. Cut off the downward growing roots with root pruners or concave pruners. Then trim the remainder of the root ball flat with shears. Try to get it as smooth as possible.

Now set the tree upright on the flat bottom. Using bent tip tweezers and a root hook if necessary, comb the top of the root ball from trunk (nebari) out towards the edge. Scrape in one direction: from the trunk, out radially. Turn the tree around as you do this. You will almost surely find more long circling roots. Cut these off with sharp scissors.

Continue to work around, your goal is to create a slight slope down from the nebari to the edge of the rootball. Trim any upward growing roots off flat with the surface.

Now for the edges: using the bent tip tweezers, remove 3/4 of the soil all around the sides of the rootball. Any roots that extend beyond 3/4 inch, trim off with sharp scissors.

NOW, the HBR begins!

Select one half of the root ball to bare root. If could be any half, one side or the other. Front, back, left or right. I generally choose the weakest half. Using your bent tip tweezers, and root hook, remove as much soil as you can from that half. You will try to leave as many roots intact as possible, just remove the soil. If you need to, you can wash soil off with water, just be careful to leave the other side intact. It will probably require several iterations of washing, picking, washing, picking, washing... try to get all the way under 1/2 of the trunk. You will probably find more heavy tap roots that you can remove as you do this process.

So, when you are done, you have a rootball with soil on one side, with small roots sticking out 3/4 inch. The other side has a skeleton of roots! With lots of thinner roots.

Prepare the new pot, place soil in the bottom, build a mound of new soil, and scrunch the rootball into the mound. Tie it in securely. Now backfill with soil. Use chopsticks to gently push new soil into all the voids between the roots.

On the side that was not bare rooted, remember we left small roots hanging out? These are important. Make sure they get surrounded by the new mix. Use chop sticks to make sure they extend into the new mix.

Fill the pot up to the nebari with new soil. IMPORTANT STEP: with one hand push down on the nebari, with the other hand, tap the side of the pot with the meat of your fist a couple of times. Do all four sides. You will be amazed how this “settles” he soil! You’ll probably have to add more soil on top. Smooth the soil out level. NO mounding! The top of the soil should be about 1/4 inch below the rim of the pot. This assures all the water that hits the soil will stay in the pot and not run off.

Water until the run off water is clear.

Water every day. At first, you may need to water throughly to keep the old side moist as the new soil will drain very quickly. When new feeder roots start to grow, the new soil will still drain well, but not as fast as when brand new. At that time, the difference between the new and old soil is not as great, and you won’t have to worry about keeping the old half watered as much. Also, the tree will start using the HBR side more.

You can HBR the other side the following year, or wait another year if you like.

I have HBR’ed dozens of trees with 100% success.
Thank you for such a detailed and succinct explanation of your process.
 

Adair M

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I feel another soil war coming on...
I stated my case. There’s nothing more to say from my end. I’m not changing my soil.

I’m getting great results. I have quality trees. If anyone has better trees than mine and uses a different soil than I use, I’d like to hear about it. If they have crappy trees, I don’t care what they use. Just don’t say it’s better than Adair’s soil.
 

crust

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I stated my case. There’s nothing more to say from my end. I’m not changing my soil.

I’m getting great results. I have quality trees. If anyone has better trees than mine and uses a different soil than I use, I’d like to hear about it. If they have crappy trees, I don’t care what they use. Just don’t say it’s better than Adair’s soil.
Aside from the great horticultural properties of akadama have you considered its importation as an unsustainable practice? I would think Japan will cease exporting their own specialty soil at some near point.
 

Adair M

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Aside from the great horticultural properties of akadama have you considered its importation as an unsustainable practice? I would think Japan will cease exporting their own specialty soil at some near point.
Why? It’s cheap in Japan. It’s just considered “potting soil” there. The quantities exported are minimal.

It’s not unique to Japan. It just happens to be mined there. Japan is all volcanic.

Akadama exists in other places, wherever there are volcanos. All that’s needed is for someone to start mining it. The bonsai community is probably too small in the USA to support an akadama mine. In Japan, akadama is used for all kinds of container growing, not just bonsai.
 

wireme

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My information isn't mis.

It's not total yet, but it isn't mis.

Different, but not mis.

Sorce. But not mis.

Sorce

Sorceformation
My information isn't mis.

It's not total yet, but it isn't mis.

Different, but not mis.

Sorce. But not mis.

Sorce

For the record I like getting the sorceformation here. And the Boonformation and all the other fermations around. No matter who the source I’m not in agreement with all of it but often most. If someone wants to sign up to follow someone unquestionably to learn that’s fine but we sure as hell didn’t sign up for that by joining this forum!
 

Estonio

Mame
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I don´t know who Boon is, not sure he is known much in Spain, maybe among some more international masters... Is he doing demos in international expos? I would like to see him in some videos just to get to know him better.

What I know and is a common approach for conifers and well known by most definitely in Spain is to remove the old soil in phases: sometimes to remove only half of the old soil, some people remove completely the old soil and take higher risk, some other do half and after some years the other half, and some others split it in 4 pieces and get rid of the soil fully after 4 repotting ... I think this is common knowledge among prole working with conifers as I said . And of course prices of the trees are higher if you want to sell a tree and you already took the risk of getting rid completely of the old soil and it thrives for couple of years.

Not sure to remove half of the old soil can be attributed to Boon's idea.
 
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