Repotting another juniper today (Ole No. 2)

[Japonicus]

I've no clue when I acquired this tree, but this is one of the oldest pics I can archive on it 2 29 2012.
I did the jin, so have had to have had it at least since 2009. Not sure if it was a Lowes mallsai of not
in the smallest pot they sold them in at the time. Good chance, that's where I got it.

Today I lifted the tree from the same plastic pot it's been in at least since 2011. Same soil, I doubt seriously.

The soil is a thick mat of roots and old akadama fines now with a little aggregate making the mat a bit more flexible.

I really didn't want to use an OVAL!! but didn't have anything else on hand I cared to use.
So will continue to train in the new home, and remove more soil and proper pot next go.

While it was not root bound it was in need of more O2. Hopefully the remaining soil mat was disturbed enough
after removing 1/3 to 1/2 of the soil, and enough new soil worked in between the roots with some assistance from
the tweezers and chop stick.

 

[Japonicus]

...so it's in an oval mica pot, but this should do another 3 or 4 years now till I get a nice pot for it.

 

[Japonicus]

the little thin plastic pot was way yonder too light in the winds and a huge safety risk for the tree

 

[JosephCooper]

It looked surprisingly big until I saw your hand.

 

[Japonicus]

It looked surprisingly big until I saw your hand.

Then I have served this gem well, and it me. Thank you!

 

[Japonicus]

Pulled No.2 from cold storage in the bonsai cave a couple weeks ago and saw where I had
at some point either watering, or getting my gob stompin feet delicately placed between the pots in mulch
to water other trees along the back wall, broke the main feature. I had to do the same to remove a couple trees
to do a little Winter work and check for damage from moles or the like. Only my own self inflicted damage unless
perhaps a varmint or local dog or cat stepped on the jin. That is highly possible.

Don't know how long I'll be able to keep applying this bandaid, already had a mishap just getting my hand in there for the pic.
It did come out from the relatively dark cave in quite good health nonetheless. Should I give up on the gluing eventually
I may consider drilling a hole slanted where the stub is and pocket the jinned branch back shorter, but into the tree.

 

[Japonicus]

2 years since repotted, Ole No. 2 should get thinned in July this year.





Being one of my fav junipers it should lose the mica pot next go round.

 

[Japonicus]

Looks like this is my year for thinning, and just about all my juniper needs it,
so I'll be moving onto the next before I wire this. Then they're all going to need wiring at one time

Ole No. 2 should get thinned in July this year.

That was last April from the previous post. IDK if that happened last July or not, but certainly
not to the degree I thinned this weekend if it did.




This was yesterday



What 3 or 4 branches have wire on, is from last year and it has not dug in yet, so on it stays.
Perhaps @sorce could rename this thread to - Ole No. 2 -
I would like to document this one in this thread from here on out.
I'm taking a few years to make corrections to flawed pads, so they regrow with fewer flaws,
by cutting back to interior growth where I can, though I may've overdone it today on a few tertiary branches.
July has been my best cut back month, so hoping for better pads to develop in a couple years.

 

[sorce]

@sorce could rename this thread to - Ole No. 2 -

I definitely miss being able to regularly help folks out. Maybe we can vote back my Admin Allowances for 30k instead of changing the "Non-Sense Rascal".

Sorce

 

[sorce]

I swear I wouldn't name it....

"Forgot to Flush"

Sorce

 

[Japonicus]

I have always struggled with fine wiring. Especially with procumbens.

I have too but out of laziness or work overload.
Over the years I've kept mine rather full, and have been slowly correcting poor pad traits
from keeping them so full through pinching efforts prior to joining up here.
To do the finer detail wiring, these poor branch traits of unruly, poor directional bones
need to be fixed best possible, then thin. If the character of the bones have been detailed
at some point, you can probably skip right to thinning, to find what needs wiring, otherwise
you're going to spend some time in correction mode.

Ole No.2 here has pads that are too thick, and it's time for me to start thinning them back down.

The underneath growth is somewhat cleaned up here already
but the top growth has been unchecked since last July.
I prefer to do this in July, but I had some time to kill, and a healthy pad to try a mid-Spring thinning on
to see how it responds. This tree is known to throw juvenile growth after working on its foliage
so I went a little far with this in that respect.












Now we can wire with much more ease, though I will be letting this rest before wiring it.
That was a pretty good work out this go around. I may not even keep this branch in the long term...


I'm hoping to be retired about this time next year, and will be able to get all my procumbens thinned down
in the next 3 years. No plans on thinning an entire tree all at once when they're as thick and full as one like this.
Smaller younger ones not so much an issue.

 

[Japonicus]

Repotted again today.
It's been 5 yrs since i last repotted it.


Changed the angle tilting forwards as procumbens are ground huggers. Not enough, but some improvement.






I removed some more dirt from the crown, but enough that I could not get it secured into the pot enough. Will have to use some exterior props like wedges of wood and wire around the pot across the soil.

 

[Japonicus]

Had these pic on my wifes camera. Others were on cell phone since my DSLR is in shop again.



Looked and felt (hefted) like I removed more soil and roots than would fit in that bigger 13.75" oval mica pot.

 

[Japonicus]

@Esolin
post #11 in this thread should help steer you in a good direction to get started thinning.
I don't know why someone at your local club couldn't give you hands on help, but I've changed from shaping the pads through pinching with input from BVF and it's made a lot of difference.
It is taking me years to correct resulting bad behaviour of the secondary and tertiary growth that occurred by keeping a profile through pinching.
I think if one even uses scissors to keep a pads profile but never thins down to the bones, that branches will grow upwards then outwards into the profile which ends up in disaster after many years of trespassing into neighboring territory.
If a branch is sparse below the profile of a pad, you'll need to cut back to a shoot further in and wire it down to become the branch.
Which is also good practice to merely shorten even a good branch to tighten up the profile.
HTH

 

[Esolin]

Thank you. It's possible I just asked the wrong guy at the wrong time. He was pruning someone else's Nana when I asked and perhaps was too distracted to understand the nuance of my question. Or maybe I didn't understand what he was doing, since his answer was basically "prune it like this". It's a big club and it can be tough to make inroads sometimes in finding good mentors.

So it would seem you're clearing out most of the upward interior growth to encourage back budding? I can try that. If nothing else, this Nana backbuds like a maniac. Most of its branches don't have a lot of woody tertiary branches yet, so I assume pick some to let run and harden, and remove the rest?

 

[Japonicus]

So it would seem you're clearing out most of the upward interior growth to encourage back budding?

I like to start with exterior upwards growing shoots.
Start with a branch that needs shortening the most. There's a good chance, that an interior upwards growing shoot could become the new branch, pruning just in front of it after wiring in place. If you try to wire it down after pruning, it is very vulnerable and higher risk of losing it.

so I assume pick some to let run and harden, and remove the rest?

Not sure I understand your question, but starting with one as healthy as the one u pictured before, there's no reason you couldn't get it thinned somewhat like this. Not done here in this pic. It has to grow again, and then you can start seeing the fruits of your work as it begins to fill back in and back bud. I avoid the most harsh Sun for a few days directly after. Misting is a good thing.

 

[Japonicus]

Also, @Esolin , it’s always ok to be skeptical and play on the safe side.

At the direction of 2 different Bnutters, I have lost 2 very nice trees
I had grown out in the ground for over 10 years each.

You’ve got all summer, and all years that follow for that matter.
But when it comes to thinning, the longer you put it off in the case of
thick pads, the worse these pads become at being pads, in and of themselves
regardless how healthy the juniper is as a whole.

 

[Baku1875]

@Esolin
post #11 in this thread should help steer you in a good direction to get started thinning.
I don't know why someone at your local club couldn't give you hands on help, but I've changed from shaping the pads through pinching with input from BVF and it's made a lot of difference.
It is taking me years to correct resulting bad behaviour of the secondary and tertiary growth that occurred by keeping a profile through pinching.
I think if one even uses scissors to keep a pads profile but never thins down to the bones, that branches will grow upwards then outwards into the profile which ends up in disaster after many years of trespassing into neighboring territory.
If a branch is sparse below the profile of a pad, you'll need to cut back to a shoot further in and wire it down to become the branch.
Which is also good practice to merely shorten even a good branch to tighten up the profile.
HTH

I really appreciate this post, as I have been letting my first 'hands on' styling project (parsoni) grow quite a bit, but I'm beginning to notice a lot of over extension, and was beginning to debate whether I should actively prune and wire to structure things properly so that they grow in the right direction from the start or just let it keep running. You basically answered my question (get ahead of the problem and set the skeleton up for good pads before it's too late).

By any chance did BVF advise you in the context of a particular thread so I can check it out?

 

[Esolin]

You’ve got all summer, and all years that follow for that matter.
But when it comes to thinning, the longer you put it off in the case of
thick pads, the worse these pads become at being pads, in and of themselves
regardless how healthy the juniper is as a whole.

I really appreciate the guidance, and yeah, I'll be careful. I'll just pick one or two pads to experiment with first. It was a cheap tree, but it's one of my nicest so naturally I don't want to lose it. However I'm fairly confident it can take some more work. It was root bound and chlorotic when I bought it five years ago and have nursed it back to health. It's been growing strong ever since, and the weather is ideal right now--overcast and misty all week. If I have time, I'll experiment some again this weekend and I'll try to take some before and after pics of a sample pad thinning to get feedback.

 

[Japonicus]

By any chance did BVF advise you in the context of a particular thread so I can check it out?

I cannot find the link he provided, but went to his blog and scrolled down through
this page https://nebaribonsai.wordpress.com/category/evergreen/junipers/itoigawa-junipers/
It doesn’t point to prospective individual shoots to remove, but shows before and after as well
as an aerial shot so you can see through the foliage to the floor beneath.

A small tree I can hold out at arms length in one hand that is healthy, like the Sisters,
I have no problem thinning the entire tree in one or two days.
My older junipers, may take me three years to thin down where I want them.
Some of my procumbens throw adult scale foliage when I thin them, which I hate.
I call it juvenile foliage, but have learned here, that is incorrect, but it is a response to thinning
which is in stark contrast to what the foliage looks like when it is lush and thick before thinning.
Not all of them throw this fit. Probably 50/50.
EDIT I am dealing with spider mites this year worse than ever. I am therefore not as aggressive
but still am opening up some foliage as perhaps the density of the pads is harboring more mites
and less penetration of sprays.