Repotting Time after Hard Chop JM

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Chumono
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What’s your opinion on getting this into a basket/box in proper soil. It was hard chopped about 2 months ago. Buds are thickening up and it is sending out new shoots. Would it be too early to repot? The soil is fine grained and retains moisture. I need to take care of that knobby crossing root. I’m in Southern California.
 

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Chumono
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....and when I remove that root, can AP JM be propagated from root cuttings like ficus?
 

Shibui

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No success with root cuttings of JM or trident here either and I have never heard of any striking this way.
I usually root prune and top prune JM all at the same time - any time from mid winter through to leaves opening. My climate is probably similar to your Southern Cal climate. Now would be the ideal time for you to repot so go ahead.
 

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Chumono
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If you’re trying to grow a second trunk section, I’d wait and repot next year If the soil is still draining well.
The soil is not draining well in the 5 gal pot. Very little grit, and is mostly fine grained with clay...like the material used when wrapped in burlab. It takes over a week for the soil to dry out. When it’s cool here, like now, drying out takes more that 2 weeks. That is my worry...holding back the spring push...anaerobic dense heavy muck.

I am trying to grow a new trunk to add movement.
 

Shibui

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The soil is not draining well in the 5 gal pot. Very little grit, and is mostly fine grained with clay...like the material used when wrapped in burlab. It takes over a week for the soil to dry out. When it’s cool here, like now, drying out takes more that 2 weeks. That is my worry...holding back the spring push...anaerobic dense heavy muck.
Definitely go with a repot now. Soil like that can be the end of JM. Any small or perceived risk from repotting is way less than leaving it in that soil.
I actually find most of my maples have a flush of increased growth after root pruning and repotting because of all the extra new root tips and the fresh soil allowing new roots space to grow.
 

Brian Van Fleet

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The soil is not draining well in the 5 gal pot. Very little grit, and is mostly fine grained with clay...like the material used when wrapped in burlab. It takes over a week for the soil to dry out. When it’s cool here, like now, drying out takes more that 2 weeks. That is my worry...holding back the spring push...anaerobic dense heavy muck.

I am trying to grow a new trunk to add movement.
Just remember to build a bonsai from the bottom-up. This means getting the roots right first, then building the trunk, followed by primary and then secondary/tertiary branches. To me, the trunk chop was done a bit out of order, which is why I recommend allowing it to recover and put on some growth before reducing the roots. But since it isn’t draining, it would have been safer to work the roots, and delay the chop. Since you are here now, if you do repot it, take the time to get the roots right, and don’t expect much from the new leader this year.
 

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Just remember to build a bonsai from the bottom-up. This means getting the roots right first, then building the trunk, followed by primary and then secondary/tertiary branches. To me, the trunk chop was done a bit out of order, which is why I recommend allowing it to recover and put on some growth before reducing the roots. But since it isn’t draining, it would have been safer to work the roots, and delay the chop. Since you are here now, if you do repot it, take the time to get the roots right, and don’t expect much from the new leader this year.
Thanks. I had planned to leave it for a season until I took a good look at the soil. I may still leave it and be judicious with the water. If I watch the water, the thing should blowup with a huge amount of roots per size of canopy I would think.

Maybe I’ll let it bounce back through the rest of spring into early summer before it gets too hot then work the roots.
 

MrWunderful

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Just remember to build a bonsai from the bottom-up. This means getting the roots right first, then building the trunk, followed by primary and then secondary/tertiary branches. To me, the trunk chop was done a bit out of order, which is why I recommend allowing it to recover and put on some growth before reducing the roots. But since it isn’t draining, it would have been safer to work the roots, and delay the chop. Since you are here now, if you do repot it, take the time to get the roots right, and don’t expect much from the new leader this year.
I agree 100%. I have always felt huge “first chops” should be in mid summer, after the tree is in good soil.

If the Op removes a significant amount of roots, the tree most likely wont have enough resources to rebuild the root system, and a large extending leader.
 

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I agree 100%. I have always felt huge “first chops” should be in mid summer, after the tree is in good soil.

If the Op removes a significant amount of roots, the tree most likely wont have enough resources to rebuild the root system, and a large extending leader.
So I’ll leave it and feed the crap out of it. Maybe slip pot it in a slightly larger container with nice porous media completely around the root ball. The dryer coarse media should wick some of the moisture out of the fine grain stuff.
 

just.wing.it

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So I’ll leave it and feed the crap out of it. Maybe slip pot it in a slightly larger container with nice porous media completely around the root ball. The dryer coarse media should wick some of the moisture out of the fine grain stuff.
I would not even slip pot it.
Just leave it and be more careful about watering. If it seems to stay too wet, just let it dry.
 
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roots right first, then building the trunk

I thought that I understood this, but now I am hearing it in connection with fresh nursery stock, and I am confused. I have purchased several deciduous trees in 15gal+ cans that are 8ft-15ft tall, and my very first step is always to cut away a significant amount of trunk. Then it may go into a grow pot/box immediately or the next season, depending on the species, time of year, and vigor. The idea is not necessarily to start building a trunk line, but just to get the damn thing down to a manageable size. That is the point after which I would start the sequence you mention above. Transplanting a huge landscape tree into a grow pot/box with bonsai soil seems absurd, so clearly I am misunderstanding something. Can you help me out here?
 

Brian Van Fleet

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I thought that I understood this, but now I am hearing it in connection with fresh nursery stock, and I am confused. I have purchased several deciduous trees in 15gal+ cans that are 8ft-15ft tall, and my very first step is always to cut away a significant amount of trunk. Then it may go into a grow pot/box immediately or the next season, depending on the species, time of year, and vigor. The idea is not necessarily to start building a trunk line, but just to get the damn thing down to a manageable size. That is the point after which I would start the sequence you mention above. Transplanting a huge landscape tree into a grow pot/box with bonsai soil seems absurd, so clearly I am misunderstanding something. Can you help me out here?
Simply put, one insult a year. So if you chop the trunk, leave the roots strong, or vice-versa. Doing both weakens the tree.

If you need to reduce the height of a nursery tree, it will respond better if you leave the roots alone for the year, and do a good repot the following spring.
 

MrWunderful

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I thought that I understood this, but now I am hearing it in connection with fresh nursery stock, and I am confused. I have purchased several deciduous trees in 15gal+ cans that are 8ft-15ft tall, and my very first step is always to cut away a significant amount of trunk. Then it may go into a grow pot/box immediately or the next season, depending on the species, time of year, and vigor. The idea is not necessarily to start building a trunk line, but just to get the damn thing down to a manageable size. That is the point after which I would start the sequence you mention above. Transplanting a huge landscape tree into a grow pot/box with bonsai soil seems absurd, so clearly I am misunderstanding something. Can you help me out here?
I like to think of it as “using the huge amount of foliage to build back the root system” after removing 90% of deciduous nursery stock root mass.

If the roots are terrible, I will use the foliage to help build a brand new set of roots via ground layer.

Then chop once its on a good set of roots and in the right soil.
 
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