"Repotting" vs "Changing Pots"

[ForThemWhatCare]

Is there a different between the restriction on "repotting" at this time of year and simply transferring new raw material from it's nursery pot into a pond basket (with a little root combing)?

 

[Gabler]

Every time you remove a tree from its pot, you disturb the roots, even when slip potting. With a slip pot disturbance, the damage is negligible, and you can treat it like there was no damage at all. With a full repot—removing compacted soil and significantly pruning the roots—the damage is great, and you need to help the tree the utmost during recovery. The easiest way to help recovery is to repot early in the spring. The tree has energy reserves ready for new spring growth, which it can divert to its roots; it has the benefit of cooler temperatures reducing transpiration; and it has the benefit of a full growing season to recover. A tree repotted later has less time to prepare for winter, and water demands are higher, with less root mass to provide that water. Shade can mitigate that problem, but it also decreases energy production at the time the tree needs it most.

Combing the roots is somewhere in between repotting and slip potting. Removing old soil is a huge setback to the tree, as it destroys the microscopic root hairs through which the tree feeds and drinks. However, if you are able to disentangle the roots without breaking them, the root hairs should regenerate much more quickly than it would take to replace the full mass of the feeder roots. The risk is still present but mitigated compared to a drastic root pruning.

Think in terms of survival rate. Switching pots in spring should give you the best chance of success, but the risk from doing it early isn’t as great as for a full repot in summer. If you have a partly-shaded greenhouse, the risk might be low enough to be negligible. If you’re putting the tree on a bench in full sun, the risk is probably not worth it. Are you willing to risk the tree? How upset will you be if it dies? You can only answer that for yourself.

 

[rockm]

Is there a different between the restriction on "repotting" at this time of year and simply transferring new raw material from it's nursery pot into a pond basket (with a little root combing)?

If you're slip potting correctly, you're combing out the outer surface of the root mass to ensure it actually will grow into the new surrounding soil. If you're not, you can expect root problems.

That means, as said above, any time you remove a tree from its pot, you're disturbing the roots. This time of year, a minimal amount of root activity won't really hurt, since most trees aren't growing all that actively. Some natives may even be in a short summer dormancy of inactivity because of the heat. Treat a slip potted tree like a recently repotted tree for a week or so, shade, adequate water, etc.

 

[ForThemWhatCare]

First, thanks for the correct term (Slip Potting).
Second, I didn't know about the root hairs element so that was helpful to know as well.
Lastly, this is an $11 Juniper Nana that has a surprisingly nice trunk and movement but when I inspected the ball when looking for the base of the trunk I found a mass of spiraling flat roots all around the edge of the pot. I guess I did a hybrid because I did try and give those roots more room by combing with my fingers and placing in the next size up pot (adding soil I had remaining from an earlier Juniper project. I'll be mindful of the amount of sun (thanks for that tip too!) and continue to water it. Outside of cleaning the dead and weak branches as well as nipping back some tips I'll leave it alone until spring.

 

[ForThemWhatCare]

And when I say large pot I don't mean by much. Just a bit wider and not as deep. used mostly the same soil. I'm moved it to a more shady area where it only gets direct sunlight between 3-7pm

 

[Firstflush]

Though it is an actual root disturbance, your addition of the soil at the edges of the root ball is really nothing to worry about. I imagine it would not even skip a beat.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

@ForThemWhatCare - disturbing the roots can be the most traumatic thing we do to our trees and house plants and garden plants. We may intend to "slip pot" and have half or the entire root ball fall away. There are several local micro-climate related windows of time where repotting is ideal, and there are some windows of time (parts of the growing season) where repotting, disturbing the roots is an idiotic thing to do.

You are in Northern Virginia. Pay attention to advice from bonsai growers that are in similar climates, for example, @rockm has been growing and showing bonsai for decades, and he too lives in Virginia, Fairfax to be exact, west of but near DC which is northern VA. His advice is probably most appropriate for your growing conditions.

I'm from a full growing zone colder, and live close enough to Lake Michigan to have "Lake Effect", cooling in summer and warming in winter. I can get away with things that someone in Texas can not, because it is, or at least was rare to have daytime highs over 85 F at my house (rarely get over +30C). When we have normal summers, we DO NOT get summer dormancy, we do not have a pause in our summer growth cycle. Summer dormancy is mentioned on BNut often by certain people, it is something that does not happen in northern IL, Wisconsin, MI or the northern great lakes states. At least in normal years. This year we have had more above 90 F (above 32 C ) days than usual, and one or two 100 F days (+ 38 C ) Our climate is changing locally. I have been less glib about "summer repotting", because or summers are not as mild and easy on the trees as they used to be.

I got into summer repotting 40 years ago because my work schedule made spring repotting nearly impossible. Now that I am retired, and our summers have gotten more unpleasant for me (as a human) and more taxing (for the trees, high heat with low humidity is difficult for trees to cope with when roots are damaged) I have switched more and more back to late winter, or early spring repotting.

If you know your climate, and if your aftercare is good, you can often repot out of season. But the trees will respond better to "correct" "in-season" repotting. There is no such thing as a gentle repot, because you never know when that root system is going to just fall apart on you. Try to time your repotting to seasons favorable for your tree.

 

[Gabler]

@rockm gives sound advice, and in response I feel I should clarify what I meant by slip-potting. In my mind, the reason to slip-pot a tree is that it fell and its previous pot broke. My goal is to minimize additional disturbance as much as possible in the short term and transfer the tree to a temporary pot until the next spring, when I can more safely comb out the roots and properly re-pot the tree. Hence, in my mind, slip-potting is a temporary band-aid for an emergency to hold you over until the proper season. It is certainly correct that if you are transferring the tree to a more permanent home (as you are with your above-pictured juniper), you will always want to comb the roots at the edge of the root ball in order to integrate them into the new soil. I made that mistake with some cheap nursery seedlings two years ago, and I have some gnarly roots that are going to need a fair amount of work in the near future. Fortunately, the trees are at least healthy and vigorous, so they should be able to handle the substantial root pruning that awaits them next year.

 

[sorce]

What happened to the pond basket?

You're better off moving the objective forward and lessening the pot size than, what amounts to be, if that other pot picture is true, moving up a size that will do mostly nothing but make watering more difficult.

I agree you're getting sound advice, but in regards to a question that shouldn't have been asked in the first place.

What is the goal?

I'm not seeing a righteous one.

Sorce

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

I concur with @sorce. Each step one makes in a trees journey are deliberate milestones towards the predetermined goal of creating a bonsai. Here’s where the devil is in the details.

Speaking for myself, at first I had difficulty unwinding what milestones should be done in a particular order. Sometimes it doesn’t matter much between two steps, yet mostly there is a method to this living art…

…..sometimes the first step is a backwards one to ensure the health of the tree. In this case your tree looks perfectly healthy, so the question to ask might be, “What can I do safely to this tree to get it moving forward on its journey to becoming a bonsai?”

For example:

Our local club has a Juniper Nana class in which trees are styled in their nursery containers in the fall, then repotted in the following March into a deeper pot then ultimately will be used. This moves the tree forward towards the goal of a bonsai in two seasons and sets them up for a solid growth period in Spring/Summer, where the next step would be to learn to properly prune to enhance the initial styling.

cheers
DSD sends

 

[ForThemWhatCare]

What happened to the pond basket?

You're better off moving the objective forward and lessening the pot size than, what amounts to be, if that other pot picture is true, moving up a size that will do mostly nothing but make watering more difficult.

I agree you're getting sound advice, but in regards to a question that shouldn't have been asked in the first place.

What is the goal?

I'm not seeing a righteous one.

Sorce

The pond basket was too small and would required me to reduce the root ball. I agree this was more lateral than anything else (in the end). I asked in this case because I had the self doubt and thought it best to better understand the rules of the road (so to speak)

 

[sorce]

DSD

Please forgive me for not returning to that other thread.
I am not ignoring you, just happens that it (another quote) was trapped in previous toxicity outside of what I must keep set as this boundary.

Even as much as this post makes me want to uncover the mystery, I can't step over that line.

I trust that if I am missing important context to elevate me to a higher position, you will find a way to get it to me without my return to that evilness.

If not, I deeply look forward to our future interactions, because it feels highly productive.

Sorce

 

[ForThemWhatCare]

In this case your tree looks perfectly healthy, so the question to ask might be, “What can I do safely to this tree to get it moving forward on its journey to becoming a bonsai?”

This is a great question. If I'm being completely transparent I'd admit that the only value in the changing of the pot I did was to better allow me to see it. I tend to stare at my raw trees after watering them in order to start developing a plan of action once the calendar says I can give them an initial styling. So in this case it's a lame excuse of it helps ME move forward more than the tree. This is one of the reasons why I'm still a noob...

 

[sorce]

rules of the road

I vote reduce!

These are not public roads, turn signals aren't required.

Rules are not applicable!

There are those that will have you believe in one road of rules.......

And those that will recognize your path and warn you of the ess curves.

Some folks like the tyranny and false feeling of security, some folks like the freedom and realize safety warnings are for your benefit.

Sorce

 

[ForThemWhatCare]

I vote reduce!

These are not public roads, turn signals aren't required.

Rules are not applicable!

Okay, okay! I'll admit my shame.

I actually bought TWO junipers and was more aggressive with the 2nd. I DID reduce the root ball (30%) on this one as well and changing pots and some of the soil. I like to experiment with cheap material to see what works.
Afterwards, I just wanted to know how much I screwed up doing this. But I confess my crimes.

This $11 juniper has had no die back though I did it only 3 weeks ago. I'm just waiting the calendar to tell me I can do an initial styling on both of these.

 

[sorce]

the calendar to tell me

Better to let the tree tell you and mark the calendar as a reference, so if you read(past tense) the tree wrong, you can know that calendar reference was wrong, wait longer and read the tree more.

This way you build knowledge and patience, rather than frustration alone.

Backwards World.....

You are ashamed of the proper work, and.....
Well let's just say, today, I joked my new signature line be....
"Exposing fake Shepard's to save the Sheep".

But clearly you are not a sheep! Don't baaaaa for the internet! Only you can know you are correct, unless it's hidden behind false shame.

Sorce

 

[a1dusty]

Better to let the tree tell you and mark the calendar as a reference, so if you read(past tense) the tree wrong, you can know that calendar reference was wrong, wait longer and read the tree more.

This way you build knowledge and patience, rather than frustration alone.

Backwards World.....

You are ashamed of the proper work, and.....
Well let's just say, today, I joked my new signature line be....
"Exposing fake Shepard's to save the Sheep".

But clearly you are not a sheep! Don't baaaaa for the internet! Only you can know you are correct, unless it's hidden behind false shame.

Sorce

Agreed , not matter what info is out there , let the tree help tell you how to go forward , no I not saying my trees talk to me in words , I talk to them lol , they tell you what they need ,

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

You can learn by reading advice of those who have gone before. The trick is sorting relevant advice from the "non-relevant" advice, and separating advice from the knowledgeable from advice from the "know nothings". Both will offer advice. Usually the truly knowledgeable will dropout of a thread before the "know nothings" as the knowledgeable will say it once and move on.

You can learn by just "doing", damn the advice, charge forward and just do it. Do take notes, so you remember the results. This method can be quite informative, and can be expensive, depending on cost of material and time invested. I have found you can frequently get away with out of season activities, if your horticulture is otherwise pretty good. But I also have found better response to repotting and other techniques if done in the recommended seasons.

I follow both approaches, read and follow advice until I get impatient. Then advice be damned. Though the older I get the fewer "chances" I take with my trees. I have less and less time ahead of me to start over.

 

[Bosco Seitzer]

Is there a different between the restriction on "repotting" at this time of year and simply transferring new raw material from it's nursery pot into a pond basket (with a little root combing)?

I think with the clever way you massage reality with your deft use of language will allow you to get away with it!