From the analysis I can see on the bottle, It has a bit of N and a bit of K in it and that's it. It is stated that it is 100% natural and I think I can see ''derived from marine''. So in other words, it's kelp extract. You should be able to get that anywhere for much less. Kelpak from Sth Africa is the best for stimulating root growth as it has a high auxin level than the others. You can get that here: http://firstrays.com/free-information/feeding-and-watering/fertilizer-information/kelpmax/
rhizotonic, do you use it?
- Thread starter barrosinc
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rockm
Spuds Moyogi
It's a waste of money.
barrosinc
Masterpiece
Maybe... I couldn't find kelp in Chile either so I just went with it to try it out.
Worst case scenario, it doesn't work and I just stop using it.
rockm
Spuds Moyogi
FWIW, there is no actual science behind seaweed as a tonic products, according to a number of horticultural scholars who helped Larry Morton on his book "Modern Bonsai Practices."
Seaweed extracts, he says, "have proven to have NO effect as a growth stimulator." Also "Scientists have also concluded that seaweed extracts have no reliable effect on a plant's resistance to disease or environmental stress." Mostly also true for humic acids and compost teas. You should hear what he has to say about Superthrive.
Seaweed extracts, he says, "have proven to have NO effect as a growth stimulator." Also "Scientists have also concluded that seaweed extracts have no reliable effect on a plant's resistance to disease or environmental stress." Mostly also true for humic acids and compost teas. You should hear what he has to say about Superthrive.
wireme
Masterpiece
Why are we still talking about seaweed? Or is seaweed an algae?
I look forward to reading through that book someday.
I bought a bottle this winter to try on my collected stuff. I was hoping it would help increase my larch survival rate. Very old weak larches are extremely difficult to collect successfully, at least from the unique ecosystem I collect them from (not bogs). Survival seems to be random, regardless of roots extracted and regardless of post-collection nursing strategies. Some with lots of roots die, some with hardly any roots live.
Misted them several times a week with rhizotonic, and watered about once a week with it. Didn't notice any benefit. As usual, some larches survived, some didn't, regardless of roots extracted. Won't be using this stuff again. I'm not convinced it helps my specific situation.
Misted them several times a week with rhizotonic, and watered about once a week with it. Didn't notice any benefit. As usual, some larches survived, some didn't, regardless of roots extracted. Won't be using this stuff again. I'm not convinced it helps my specific situation.
rockm
Spuds Moyogi
Uh, marine algae is basically, seaweed. Algal extracts are included. Get the book, stop wasting your money on mostly useless stuff.
Does yours have an expiration date? I bought mine in like March 2016 and the expiration was July 2016.
wireme
Masterpiece
I don't know I'll have a look.
I just googled my question above, turns out Kelp is an algae, maybe this stuff is nothing different than many seaweed/kelp products out there.
Have you got your hands on one of those giant killer potentilla you showed me pics of yet?
wireme
Masterpiece
It was just one bottle purchased three years ago, haven't replaced it.
Haha no. I keep meaning to go out and collect just potentilla, but I always get distracted by the cedars and larches.
rockm
Spuds Moyogi
From Harrington's website quoting Canna --the maker
Rhizotonic is described by the manufacturer as "..........a powerful, algae based, vegetative stimulator for plant roots. It contains multiple vitamins and is 100% natural........adds more than 60 microbiological substances that considerably speed up the growth of a balanced root environment."
This is PRECISELY the crap Morton addresses as Bullshite in his book. Claims made by a manufacturer with no scientific backup selling to largely unquestioning consumers...
Rhizotonic is described by the manufacturer as "..........a powerful, algae based, vegetative stimulator for plant roots. It contains multiple vitamins and is 100% natural........adds more than 60 microbiological substances that considerably speed up the growth of a balanced root environment."
This is PRECISELY the crap Morton addresses as Bullshite in his book. Claims made by a manufacturer with no scientific backup selling to largely unquestioning consumers...
I was not super convinced by this article. I would bet the revival of the juniper was mostly due to the repotting.
And I would be more impressed to see results on collected conifers. Hawthorns (same family as apple) and maples are notoriously easy to root.
wireme
Masterpiece
Haha no. I keep meaning to go out and collect just potentilla, but I always get distracted by the cedars and larches.
I just got home from a wedding in crested butte Colorado. Took a different route both ways, the shear area of what appears to be great collecting down there is amazing! Wish I had time to stop and wander those hills a bit.
Well that is just complete and utter bullshit. Firstly there are numerous scientific trials that demonstrate the opposite and also many reviews of those papers. Secondly, I have personal experience e that they can perform small miracles in certain circumstances.
Example: When I ran a retail nursery years ago we used to sell full sized flowering containerized Cherry trees. One in particular was very weak. Almost no leaves. Twig die back etc. It was watered and fertilized as normal. As a last resort I decided to flood it with a Seasol solution. (Tasmanian Bull Kelp). It was a big tree so I used 1lt of concentrate with about 50lt water. Within one month the entire tree was covered with large succulent fresh leaves and new shoots extending everywhere.
This guy either has had no field experience or is regurgitating someone else's crap without checking the facts first.
I can't stand crap and if this is the level of accuracy in this new book, I know what I won't be buying.
http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1300/J280v01n01_03
http://www.actahort.org/books/727/727_27.htm
http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10811-011-9660-9
http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10811-013-0078-4
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0254629908003153
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parhamr
Omono
I've not had the same experiences with hawthorns that is reported in these links: mine are England native species grown in a similar climate in standard inorganic soils.
This tiny stub had only slightly more mass under the soil than what is visible above the soil (January 2016). It put on a reasonable amount of growth (but not superbly impressive) this year and is stable and healthy. I inoculate with endomycorrhizal granules and feed with liquid organic fertilizer.
(The four other hawthorn trees I have are all equally low maintenance and successful at rooting; maybe I selected for great genetics?!)
These happen to be conveniently available due to all of the locals who enjoy specialty indoor gardening:
http://www.rootnaturally.com/store/mycorrhizae/68-4-oz-endo-mycorrhizae.html
http://www.aurorainnovations.org/buddha-grow.html
This tiny stub had only slightly more mass under the soil than what is visible above the soil (January 2016). It put on a reasonable amount of growth (but not superbly impressive) this year and is stable and healthy. I inoculate with endomycorrhizal granules and feed with liquid organic fertilizer.
(The four other hawthorn trees I have are all equally low maintenance and successful at rooting; maybe I selected for great genetics?!)
These happen to be conveniently available due to all of the locals who enjoy specialty indoor gardening:
http://www.rootnaturally.com/store/mycorrhizae/68-4-oz-endo-mycorrhizae.html
http://www.aurorainnovations.org/buddha-grow.html
rockm
Spuds Moyogi
The articles you cite are not really for seaweed's use as a bio stimulant. The articles you list mostly talk about using it as a fertilizer--in the field on crops or on seedless grape production.
Biostimulants like this are being sold as a way to stimulate roots with natural extracts and vitamins. Neither have been proven as a result.
The article you list that does address it as a biostimulant is mostly unavailable beyond the synopsis on the main page. The synopsis already jumps to the conclusion that plants are amendable to its use as a biostimulant--again something that really hasn't been proven---and apparently goes on to advocate using it, not proving it works. Even Morton says seaweed can be used as fertilizer--a rather ineffective, weak one, but a fertilizer none the less--on field crops.
The author, Larry Morton, has horticultural degrees from the University of Maryland. He ran a professional tree nursery and landscape company for decades. His work was vetted by a panel of horticultural experts from universities, including horticulture and soil experts from North Carolina State and others. Walter Pall wrote the forward for the book and noted some people will have big problems with what Morton says.
You emotional response to criticism shows why these kinds of products take hold. Two decades ago it was the same with Superthrive--another biostimulant with vitamins, wild claims, but no associated facts. That product also claims to have scientific "evidence" -- which itself is very questionable. People still cling to that product because of the hocus pocus element. They take its claims on some kind of misplaced faith "because they've seen it work miracles." I used it for years, the success I had while using it turned out to be due to an increasing knowledge of what my trees needed, not because of the snake oil. I had the same "miracles" occur with collected stock and established trees after I stopped using it. I just no longer saw them as miracle work due to a product.
Don't buy the book, I don't give a crap. I just hate to see extremely expensive products with no proven worth being swallowed hook line and sinker without much thought or consideration.
Don't get started on mycorriza additives...
@ rockm. Here is a trial of Seasol on broccoli plants. (full paper not just the abstract) It is irrefutable evidence of the bio simulating qualities of kelp which cannot be attributed to any increase in NPK input. (ie; no ''fertilizing'' activity)
It resulted in larger leaf area, longer roots, disease suppression etc. What more proof do you need?
It has even out performed well fertilized plants which were treated with artificial hormones.
http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/01448765.2013.830276
It resulted in larger leaf area, longer roots, disease suppression etc. What more proof do you need?
It has even out performed well fertilized plants which were treated with artificial hormones.
http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/01448765.2013.830276
rockm
Spuds Moyogi
OK, lets narrow things down a bit and cut through the crap--Broccoli isn't bonsai. The trial is conducted in a field. What makes you think any of that translate to a bonsai pot.?
There is no "irrefutable evidence" ANY of this translate to bonsai, or even other plants in the field or much less containers. These is "refutable" evidence in the fact that about 8 ou to10 of the papers I've run across on the net indicate middling to no net positive results for these products in any setting. Bio stimulators have not proven to be of any worth by the vast majority of studies done on them, according to the horticulturalists quoted in the book and what I've seen on the web. There is no scientific study that proves they're beneficial beyond specific and sometimes questionable industry-backed studies. It's unclear who sponsored this particular study-the inclusion of copyright marks is a fair indication that the study is sponsored by the company that makes it did, which is pretty common with these products.
You can kick and scream all you want to. If it works for you great, but the majority of research that I've seen indicates this kind of stuff is mostly being hyped with no real benefit.
