River Hoppin'

[CasAH]

What species is it?
Ostrya virginiana - hop flowered hornbeam?
Hops - Humulus?
something else?

Ostrya virginiana is the only one native to the area. Not uncommon along the lower Des Plaines River.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

The old bark looks rougher than most Ostrya I've seen, but it could be Ostrya, the younger bark fits. Leaves I can't see the details, but leaves are plausible.

A great find @sorce , that is one heck of a stump.

Great species for bonsai, in my book, as good as Carpinus, with a difference. Ostrya tolerate dry just a touch better. They are not cactus, but Carpinus are damaged easily by a short drought, Ostrya seem to bounce back a bit quicker with less damage. Important if you don't have an automatic watering system and leave town for a weekend. I like the hop shaped seed clusters.

I have a batch of seedlings, finishing 3rd year. Seed requires a warm stratification followed by cold stratification, so I planted seed spring of 2014, it finally sprouted spring 2015. Got to use tags and labels or you loose track of the seedlings. Some are now 3 feet tall, look rather elm like, with a few differences.

 

[CasAH]

The old bark looks rougher than most Ostrya I've seen, but it could be Ostrya, the younger bark fits. Leaves I can't see the details, but leaves are plausible.

A great find @sorce , that is one heck of a stump.

Great species for bonsai, in my book, as good as Carpinus, with a difference. Ostrya tolerate dry just a touch better. They are not cactus, but Carpinus are damaged easily by a short drought, Ostrya seem to bounce back a bit quicker with less damage. Important if you don't have an automatic watering system and leave town for a weekend. I like the hop shaped seed clusters.

I have a batch of seedlings, finishing 3rd year. Seed requires a warm stratification followed by cold stratification, so I planted seed spring of 2014, it finally sprouted spring 2015. Got to use tags and labels or you loose track of the seedlings. Some are now 3 feet tall, look rather elm like, with a few differences.

Leo, if I remember I will get some pictures of large Ostrya that have the same bark. These have burn scars at the base.

Sorce, as Leo says Ostrya are able to tolerate dry conditions than Carpinus. Ostrya tends to grow on the bluffs along the Des Plaines River which are usually on clay loam with gravel under laying it.

Carpinus grows in the flood plain forest in alluvial soils.

I think both trees have nice hop like seed pods.

 

[Waltron]

It’s one of my favorite species. The leaves reduce, the bark is great, seems to collect rather Obediently, back buds well. the fall color is a nice yellow. I’ve got very small trees with the old bark and the wood is hard and doesn’t seem to want to rot out super fast like capinus. I do love carpinus though too. I find them growing together often, however the ostyra does seem to favor the edge of the forest.

 

[Timbo]

I can't get them to bud out after collecting...i'm 1 for 7...i had a 6in+ that budded out and then died. From what i've read, the older they get the harder they are to dig out alive.
It's a shame cause they are all over here as well as Carpinus. I've never lost a Hornbeam though.
Hop-Hornbeams almost always have a good flare base up here.
They don't call it ironwood for nothing...My reciprocating saw burns through them.

 

[just.wing.it]

Woah dude!
That's cool!

 

[Waltron]

Not to high Jack but @Timbo I’ve hadn’t the opposite experience. I love these things here are a couple of mine from last year. They bud from old stumps, even better from young stumps in my experience.

 

[Timbo]

Not to high Jack but @Timbo I’ve hadn’t the opposite experience. I love these things here are a couple of mine from last year. They bud from old stumps, even better from young stumps in my experience.View attachment 167574View attachment 167577 View attachment 167578View attachment 167580

When do you collect them? Most of mine were in the spring as the buds were breaking. I couldn't get many feeder roots, mostly big roots. They extended out, stopped budding a few weeks later and slowly went brown and died. Branches took a long time to go brown though...most of the summer. Happened to all 3 i collected this year... it's a shame, one might have been well over 50 years old. The one i had success is about that size, any bigger and no luck for me. Pulled the big one out and no new root formed.
I didn't cut the top other than to smooth out the splintered mess the county left behind.
I collected them in the forest maybe it was just to much light...only thing i can think of...my other one does fine in full sun though.

My only survivor looks a tad bit diff:

 

[CasAH]

@Timbo these are under story trees, they live in partial shade under the oaks and hickories here.

Maybe you should try them under 30% or 50% shade cloth?

 

[Timbo]

Maybe, at least newly collected. My Carpinus loved the sun right away and i got them deep in a swampy area.
Next time i will put them under one of my trees where i put my shade loving plants. They get sun a little bit in the morning and dappled the rest of the time.

 

[M. Frary]

I can't get them to bud out after collecting...i'm 1 for 7...i had a 6in+ that budded out and then died. From what i've read, the older they get the harder they are to dig out alive.
It's a shame cause they are all over here as well as Carpinus. I've never lost a Hornbeam though.
Hop-Hornbeams almost always have a good flare base up here.
They don't call it ironwood for nothing...My reciprocating saw burns through them.

You're just going to have come over in spring. We will go collect whatever you want. Except Chinese elms.
I've got trees mapped out all over and I'll share. They make them every day.
Jack pine,American elm,hawthorn,Siberian elm,tamarack,scots pine,spruce and maybe even an eastern white pine and a balsam for I've found.

 

[Timbo]

You can't see me drooling!

 

[Ry2Tree2]

When do you collect them? Most of mine were in the spring as the buds were breaking. I couldn't get many feeder roots, mostly big roots. They extended out, stopped budding a few weeks later and slowly went brown and died. Branches took a long time to go brown though...most of the summer. Happened to all 3 i collected this year... it's a shame, one might have been well over 50 years old. The one i had success is about that size, any bigger and no luck for me. Pulled the big one out and no new root formed.
I didn't cut the top other than to smooth out the splintered mess the county left behind.
I collected them in the forest maybe it was just to much light...only thing i can think of...my other one does fine in full sun though.

My only survivor looks a tad bit diff:

I have no experience with the species, but typically if you can't get any close fine roots, you may not expect great survival rates. Fine roots are what you need most to ensure survial. A few suggestions I have are,
1) to dig a larger root ball - it may be useful to do a combination of methods. Dig around the trunk and large roots looking for where they split if they do at all near the trunk. Better to get too much roots and reduce later once it is healthy.
2) If the leaves have opened or started opening, leave it. Some species tolerate collection after leaves bud out, but I think the rule of thumb is to repot prior, and protect from frost thereafter if possible. A period of root growth should proceed the leaves opening.
3) Shade for the first summer, as you mentioned.

 

[Timbo]

I can bare root a Maple/Elm/Ash stump no problem. Actually just about any native deciduous beside Beech/Oak...and i guess Hop-hornbeam. I made a mistake with my Maples and had to go back and cut roots shorter the next year.
Up here about the only place you are getting many feeder roots is in a swampy area.
Hehe, So you lift a 100 pound clump of sand that's falling apart, killing your back. Bring it home, wash the sand off, only to find out a lot of roots from other trees/stones...not many feeder roots. When i could have just dumped most of the sand back into the hole and wrap it up!
Hornbeams are heavy.
I like doing it, but learned fast up here you just get about a 2 ft rootball. You get any bigger, it's just too heavy and the rootball breaks tearing any feeder roots even in burlap/plastic wrap.
I need to get better at aftercare.

 

[sorce]

I didn't get any feeders with this.
Not enough to think it would make it this far anyway.

Biotone and garden tone and mad fish.

Earth.

Sorce

 

[M. Frary]

A must when collecting hornbeam is to seal the cut at the chop site and any cuts on wood over 1/4"
You will get dieback if you don't. If it's a short stump the dieback can completely kill it. If it's a tall stuml,you will get branches low. More like suckers from the base.
That means cut the thing higher than what you want and seal the cuts.
I don't have any at the moment but I do know where to get hops and regular American hornbeam. I thought I'd get a couple more of each this year.
Also,when I collect deciduous trees I cut the roots back far enough to go right in a colander. I think mine are 12" colanders.

 

[M. Frary]

I don't know if I can find one as unusual as Sorces. It's pretty nice. Most I find are fairly straight. Not stovepipe straight but wiggly straight.

 

[Waltron]

both of my stumps that I showed were completely bare rooted in late feb or early march. I have others that have responded well to the procedure. 1/8-1/4"pumice, repti bark, turface MVP, lava, and charcoal was the mix. I'm super geeked for repottong season this year. not to mention collecting. Mike, I'm going to make it a point to get up therefor spring collecting this year . gonna bring the minivan and fill er up, as I too have several trees marked.

I have some new theories on hornbeam dieback as well. still theories at this point but after next season I should have some more conclusive evidence to report.

 

[sorce]

I have some new theories on hornbeam dieback as well. still theories at this point but after next season I should have some more conclusive evidence to report.

Share the theory!

You never know who is out there with the evidence but no theory...

You know...Ham no Burger...

Sorce

 

[Timbo]

both of my stumps that I showed were completely bare rooted in late feb or early march. I have others that have responded well to the procedure. 1/8-1/4"pumice, repti bark, turface MVP, lava, and charcoal was the mix. I'm super geeked for repottong season this year. not to mention collecting. Mike, I'm going to make it a point to get up therefor spring collecting this year . gonna bring the minivan and fill er up, as I too have several trees marked.

I have some new theories on hornbeam dieback as well. still theories at this point but after next season I should have some more conclusive evidence to report.

Not sure i can see the ground in late Feb let alone dig in it.