Robinia pseudoacacia

PiñonJ

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Does anyone have experience with Purple Robe locust? There is a volunteer at my office that I'd like to collect. Is this a reasonable time of year to collect it, or do I need to wait until spring? It is still in summer foliage. Do they drop branches in bonsai culture? Thanks for your input.
 

coh

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I think the lack of response is telling you the answer...I've never seen one or even seen people talking about them on the forums, though if you google you'll find a couple out there.

If you're willing to wait a few years, I may be able to help. I have a R. pseudoacacia in the ground (standard wild white variety) for future bonsai use. I'm going to attempt to dig it in the spring, do some root work, and re-plant to work on additional trunk development. One thing I can say is that it is the most vigorous tree I've ever grown.

Chris
 

PiñonJ

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Thanks. The One I'm watching has a decent trunk with taper, and has grown rapidly the past couple years, despite not being on the irrigation system. I'm going to collect it next spring. I think people may be put off by the thorns, but I don't think they'll be too hard to wire around.
 

Leo in N E Illinois

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I agree with Chris (COH), the lack of response is because nobody is working with this one much, and those that have tried have not worked out the problems with it - yet. Chris is trying, and I have dabbled with it too.

You are in New Mexico, I think your purple flowered tree is Robinia x margarettiae (hispida x psuedoacacia) if it is growing as a human planted landscape tree. The hybrid x margarettiae can propagate itself by seed and by root sprouts, so if any of the hybrid were planted in the area your purple locust is likely this hybrid. The hybrid's flowers can range from nearly white to very dark purple pink. The darker color forms are the ones most often planted on purpose.

If it is growing in a "wild place" where an escaped introduced species is unlikely, then it is probably Robinia neomexicana - the New Mexio Locust. Its flowers tend to be a soft pink to almost white.

Regardless, they all grow with a similar pattern as Robinia psuedoacacia.

I've been "playing" with one or two off and on over the years. I have root suckers from a neighbor's tree sprouting everywhere in my back yard. I have left a few get some size, then dig them up. Without fail, all but one of my attempts died over the first winter after digging them up. This year the one that made it I brought into the same area I winter my Satsuki azalea, which is always above freezing. The top of the tree died back, but one branch sprouted from the trunk. It is looking rather pathetic at the moment. I think getting a well enough developed root system on a dug up tree, so that it can survive our cold winters is a problem. (zone 5b) I also think that if pruned hard, rather than the branch back budding, the tree may just abort the branch and grow somewhere else. If too much is trimmed from a trunk, it will send up a bunch of suckers from its roots instead of putting the energy back into the same trunk.

None of these issues say it can not be used for bonsai, but it does require planning ahead. You are in New Mexico, so your climate may be more to Robinia's liking. COH and I are near the northern limit of where this species does well. Its original native range was strictly a southern tree, but it has been spread all over the US, as both an ornamental and for wind break, firewood and waste land reclamation projects. It has been used to colonize defunct strip mines. A really tenacious tree in the 'wild'. I don't understand why it does not seem to like life in a bonsai pot.

I once saw an impressive trunk (maybe 5 inches diameter or more, 2 or 3 feet tall) that was collected, shown at a local bonsai show sometime back in the late 1980s, before digital photography. It had nice deeply fissured black bark. But I never saw the tree again in subsequent years. Usually at the Chicago MBS show at the Chicago Botanic Garden good trees do make return appearances every few years. Have never seen another Robinia at that show again. Robinia is a weed tree everywhere in my region. It is odd you don't see it as bonsai.

I love the fragrance of the flowers. It would be nice if someone could figure out what "the trick" is.
 

coh

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Leo, I know I've written about my experience before - can't recall if it was here or on IBC. But I'll give a summary since we're talking about it.

A number of years ago a volunteer black locust appeared in our vegetable garden (there are lots of these trees at nearby golf course, so I assume the seed blew in from there). I transplanted it elsewhere in the yard and it quickly established and grew well. Within a couple of years the root suckers began showing up. In April 2012 I dug up one of those suckers and transplanted it into my bonsai growing bed. I didn't get much root and didn't know if it would survive. I didn't record the size of the trunk at that point, but less than 1/2" for sure.

The thing took off and by the end of the first growing season it was almost 10' tall with a trunk base of 1.75". I let it grow for another season and by the end of that second growing season the trunk diameter had reached approximately 4". It was one of the fastest growing trees I've ever seen, height was around or over 20'. Root suckers were appearing all over my growing bed.

This spring I did a trunk chop. I wasn't sure how it would respond to I cut back to an inch or two above a lower branch. Tree has grown strongly; that branch has thickened very well and should serve as the next trunk segment. However, I didn't get a lot of additional sprouts from the trunk. There were maybe 3 or 4 new growth points, but it also looks like there was a lot of die back on the trunk, down in between the new growth points. That may actually turn out to be a good thing, as I'll be able to carve in some deadwood and reduce the weight of the thing.

Next spring I'm going to try to dig the thing up and reduce the root system. I have no idea what I'm going to find. I planted it on a board so hopefully that forced the roots to go horizontally. Given the massive and vigorous growth, though, I have a feeling that the buried trunk/root area is going to be a mess, and I may have to try again with another plant. Fingers crossed. I'm going to do some root cutting around the perimeter over the next week or two to prep for the spring.

Chris
 

PiñonJ

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I'm going to do some root cutting around the perimeter over the next week or two to prep for the spring.

Chris

I'll do the same with the one I want to collect. We have a number of these around my office as landscape trees and I believe this one grew from seed. It has done very well on its own, especially in the past year. It will be interesting to see what color the flowers are. Those on the landscape trees are magenta.
 

PiñonJ

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I collected this on 5 April. The tree was about five feet at the crown. It was growing over hardpan and there were no roots below about eight inches. The first two adventitious buds appeared about a week after collection, then died in an unexpected frost (unexpected by me). New buds appeared in another five days and now it's going crazy, with buds all over the trunk, as well as suckers, even distant from the trunk.


image.jpg image.jpg image.jpg
 

coh

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Thanks for the update. Here is a pic of mine. I dug around it last fall, then dug it out of the ground about a week ago. I've been sick since then so I haven't been able to go in and work on the roots and replant it.

The trunk is 5" across at the base and the total burlap-wrapped root mass is 16-18" wide, about 5" deep. I had placed a small board under the trunk when I originally planted it in 2012. After the trunk chop last year, I only got the 2 strong shoots and the area above and down the trunk (roughly above the red line in pic 2) died...which may not be so bad, as it will lessen the weight when I remove some of it.

Not sure how this may develop going forward, it's all experimental...but an interesting project.
locust_trunk01.jpg

locust_trunk02.jpg
 

PiñonJ

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Thanks for posting. Can't wait to see what you do with that trunk. I never got the chance to trench, and I managed to fracture the clay ball while digging it out. Much of the soil came loose while lifting it. I soaked it in a tub of water (with Super Thrive) for the next two days to take most of the rest of the soil off. Given it's response, I suspect it could be immediately bare rooted.
 

M. Frary

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Thanks for the update. Here is a pic of mine. I dug around it last fall, then dug it out of the ground about a week ago. I've been sick since then so I haven't been able to go in and work on the roots and replant it.

The trunk is 5" across at the base and the total burlap-wrapped root mass is 16-18" wide, about 5" deep. I had placed a small board under the trunk when I originally planted it in 2012. After the trunk chop last year, I only got the 2 strong shoots and the area above and down the trunk (roughly above the red line in pic 2) died...which may not be so bad, as it will lessen the weight when I remove some of it.

Not sure how this may develop going forward, it's all experimental...but an interesting project.
View attachment 73961

View attachment 73962


Balled and burlapped! Nice. I just toss them in the truck in the dirt that came with them. Going to pay for that someday I fear.
 

coh

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Balled and burlapped! Nice. I just toss them in the truck in the dirt that came with them. Going to pay for that someday I fear.

Maybe, maybe not. If it's working...

In my case, the b&b-ing is probably not necessary. These are growing bed trees, most have been planted on (and sometimes tied/wired to) boards or tiles, which helps contain the root system to a large degree (the roots grow out horizontally, then dive down along the edges of the obstruction which helps hold the board and a fair amount of soil in place). I did it because I had burlap laying around, and it was easy enough to pick up the tree, put in on the burlap, and then wrap. Good practice if I ever really need to do it.
 

Leo in N E Illinois

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Mine did not survive, even though it was in the unheated well house this winter. I think my soil was too wet (left too much yard dirt in the pot) when I try again, will plant it in a mostly pumice mix to get it established.
 

PiñonJ

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Mine did not survive, even though it was in the unheated well house this winter. I think my soil was too wet (left too much yard dirt in the pot) when I try again, will plant it in a mostly pumice mix to get it established.

Sorry to hear it. I planted mine in pumice and potting soil, 2:1, because we have such a dry climate. I plan to bury the growing box in winter, maybe in a cold frame.
 

aml1014

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I'm part of the abq bonsai club and this tree is very nice in person and is so vigorous already it's funny I found this posting after already seeing it at the club
 

PiñonJ

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image.jpeg Got it out of the box and into a bonsai pot last week. There were a lot of little spherical rhizomes on the roots, which were not present when I collected it, so I assume it has a lot of stored energy. At any rate, buds are opening like crazy.
 

aml1014

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View attachment 101730 Got it out of the box and into a bonsai pot last week. There were a lot of little spherical rhizomes on the roots, which were not present when I collected it, so I assume it has a lot of stored energy. At any rate, buds are opening like crazy.
Looking good! This one will have to go in the club show in the next few years!

Aaron
 
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