Root pest ID please?

[Starfox]

Hey all,

I'm doing some weeding of this horrible weed that is coming up in a lot of my pots and in this one pot in particular there are a load of these tiny white bug things.
They don't match with the root aphids on google so I'm not sure what they could be. They do move around so not like scale. Could they be young pill bugs even?

Any ideas on what they are and how worried I should be and the best way to treat it since it is below the surface of the soil?
Also an ID on the weed would be great too because it's a constant battle with that as well.

 

[moke]

Root aphids!!! For more info read the links below.
https://www.pthorticulture.com/en/training-center/critters-down-under-root-aphids/

https://www.bonsainut.com/threads/root-aphids-up-close-and-personal.37675/

 

[Starfox]

https://www.planetnatural.com/pest-problem-solver/houseplant-pests/root-aphid-control/

This article has this little section....
Their bodies are more pear-shaped than oval as are mealybugs.

And that matches more with what I am seeing.
I think they may be root mealy bugs. Either way both sound like a real pain in the arse to get rid of. I certainly don't want that spreading.

https://www.bonsaimary.com/mealy-bugs.html

 

[penumbra]

Look like mealybugs to me but I have never experienced root aphids. Either way I think you need to drench the soil with a systemic insecticide. I have had good luck with systemic granules for mealybug on my succulents.

 

[Shibui]

I'd say Mealy bug but that may be the same as root aphid. Mealy bug can live above or below ground. Mealy bug sucks sap so it will reduce vigour in affected plants. Also causes swelling where it has cut into the stems/roots to access sap for food.
Contact insecticide only kills the ones it touches so difficult to control underground bugs.
Systemic insecticide is very effective because it circulates through the entire plant, even roots.

 

[BubblePopScott]

I'd say Mealy bug but that may be the same as root aphid. Mealy bug can live above or below ground. Mealy bug sucks sap so it will reduce vigour in affected plants. Also causes swelling where it has cut into the stems/roots to access sap for food.
Contact insecticide only kills the ones it touches so difficult to control underground bugs.
Systemic insecticide is very effective because it circulates through the entire plant, even roots.

the article says systemic isn't that effective against root aphids? If the tree can tolerate it, maybe a bare root (dispose of all old soil) and fresh clean soil might be the way to go?

 

[TN_Jim]

Plant sp. looks like a spurge (Euphorbiaceae)
Perhaps/likely Euphorbia supina -common pot invader, often deep taproots that can really disturb soil when pulled

 

[Shibui]

the article says systemic isn't that effective against root aphids? If the tree can tolerate it, maybe a bare root (dispose of all old soil) and fresh clean soil might be the way to go?

Did you also note that the article showed a completely different insect? Also it is an organic site so they won't be promoting any chemical control measures.
The only successful treatment I have found for mealy bug is systemic insecticide and it has been very successful for me. All other treatments have only controlled the visible pests and the ones underground soon breed up to replace the ones that have been killed.

Plant sp. looks like a spurge (Euphorbiaceae)

Yes. A relatively recent introduction over here but a really successful invader. Seems to produce seed almost as it emerges from the ground. Colonises any bare soil and spreads rapidly through any garden or nursery. I have declared war on it here but a few still pop up occasionally.

 

[Starfox]

Thank you to all, I'm fairly sure these are the root mealy bugs which I didn't even know existed as of yesterday and from what I have seen they are on the roots of the spurge but without checking the roots of the tree yet I don't know if they just want the weed or if they have spread.

Most of the recommended systemics are banned here and I'm not sure what a suitable replacement would be so that isn't an option but from what I was reading a hot bath around 50degC should do the trick so I will give that a go this weekend. I can get some stuff off amazon that is nasty to fish so that may be ok but I want to deal with it sooner than that would arrive.
The tree is an acacia and could do with a repot too so I think my plan will be a hot bath then repot with fresh soil, if I'm lucky they haven't spread to the tree roots but now I have weeded it they might be on the move.
The tree should be ok with it, it is seemingly healthy and growing well at the moment so the timing I think is fine for it. It may die back a touch but this one likes doing that anyway so we'll see.

When I do I'll check to see if they spread or only wanted the spurge roots and report back, so far I have only found them in the one pot so fingers crossed they are not anywhere else.

Euphorbia supina

That is pretty close cheers, total pain of a weed.

 

[Gustavo Martins]

Mealy bugs for sure.

I have them on one juniper and I either squeesh ‘em or use a systemic but I find that they always return after some time. They like to hide in more humid and dark areas of the tree. Maybe they are in the roots, I don’t know. I will probably repot next year and check.

 

[TN_Jim]

Thank you to all, I'm fairly sure these are the root mealy bugs which I didn't even know existed as of yesterday and from what I have seen they are on the roots of the spurge but without checking the roots of the tree yet I don't know if they just want the weed or if they have spread.

Most of the recommended systemics are banned here and I'm not sure what a suitable replacement would be so.....

That is pretty close cheers, total pain of a weed.

That thing is a summer annual that is indeed prolific at dropping seeds! You’re likely to see new sprouts.

Kinda surprised to see mealy bugs on it because pretty much all euphorbiaceae have that milky latex sap that is usually pretty toxic to critters.

If you need to try natural (I’ve really been trying to go this route), I just watched this video where fella uses solution of neem, camphor, and coconut oil and you can see them die immediately -had never heard of using camphor and coconut oil. Also, that jet of solution seems pretty key. They especially like to get down in the axillary buds of leaves.

Perhaps wishful thinking, although I think if you can stay on the adults daily, you should be able to break the life cycle within a couple weeks (or much less) without systematic or repot..?

 

[terryb]

I'd say Mealy bug but that may be the same as root aphid.

Agree with Mealy Bug. These belong to a different family of sucking insects (Pseudococcidae) than the root aphids (Phylloxeridae). The wine industry here goes to great lengths to keep the Phylloxera that attacks grape vines out of our region.

 

[Starfox]

That thing is a summer annual that is indeed prolific at dropping seeds! You’re likely to see new sprouts.

Kinda surprised to see mealy bugs on it because pretty much all euphorbiaceae have that milky latex sap that is usually pretty toxic to critters.

If you need to try natural (I’ve really been trying to go this route), I just watched this video where fella uses solution of neem, camphor, and coconut oil and you can see them die immediately -had never heard of using camphor and coconut oil. Also, that jet of solution seems pretty key. They especially like to get down in the axillary buds of leaves.

Perhaps wishful thinking, although I think if you can stay on the adults daily, you should be able to break the life cycle within a couple weeks (or much less) without systematic or repot..?

Yeah it has been popping up everywhere for a while now so yesterday I decided to weed my pots. I would never have known they were in there had I not pulled them up and saw them. Like I say no idea if they are just on the weeds or have gotten to the tree roots but I'll check that out when I repot it but I guess that it's more of a problem when I can't see them like that.

It's not so much I want to try natural it's more what is available, I can get neem locally at least. There may be more choice online but between the EU's banning of certain products and Spain's requirements to do a course and get a license to buy other products the consumer isn't left with much choice in person.

When I can see the bugs I'm on top of them, I just use a contact spray and rinse and repeat and has worked well for me so far. The acacia in question only tends to get Cthulhu scale so it's my hope that they were just interested in the euphorbiaceae, as it turns out that may be the case. https://www.euphorbia-international.org/euphorbias/pests/about_euph_pests_root_mealy_bugs.htm


Cheers for the vid too I'll give it a watch this afternoon.

 

[Shibui]

Once again, this treatment is a contact insecticide. It will work, as will many others, on the bugs you can see but does not penetrate into the root zone to kill the ones below which just continue to breed up until more move up into the branches again.
I'd be interested to see whether the neem mix could treat underground infestations or whether bare rooting and treating the roots with the mix would work without affecting the live roots.

I've used a bleach mix to sanitise stems before making cuttings (to kill any bugs and fungi that may be present) but have not tried it as a dip for live roots.

 

[AJL]

If as you say the bugs are only on the Euphorbia supina ( AKA Korean Prostrate Spurge) then maybe you could eliminate both by mulching the pot with a black weed control fabric or black polythene for a few months? smother the weeds and the bugs should die! That would avoid having to repot your Acacia which probably wouldnt benefit from being bare-rooted repotted during the hot summer months!!

 

[TN_Jim]

Look like mealybugs to me but I have never experienced root aphids. Either way I think you need to drench the soil with a systemic insecticide. I have had good luck with systemic granules for mealybug on my succulents.

Insecticide is becoming more and much more Burger King to me, with seriously all due respect -insecticide is a vastly accepted practice and I’ve used (will use in extreme cases now) and recommend it;.........
@penumbra im seriously not attempting to come at you in this reply or anyone directly or personally, or start some bonsai debate regarding the practices of conservation or being a steward of the earth...my assertions are only directed to the approach I am attempting to make with all of the plants I care for daily. I just read: use a systematic..so commonly that ideas of not or alternatives seem like some archaic waste of time, when presumably we all want the healthiest trees....

however I’ve heard this dichotomy argument outside of BN of ease of use associated with the literal supply and demand of X in complete different forms 3+ times this week vs. an alternative approach or application....and of course the gamble on the alternative effectiveness and $/time of application/investment/outcome and externalities....ala Burger King example...do I want to eat immediately or cook a decent meal?

I’m personally weary of the long term effectiveness of destroying a desired component of the ecosystem in a pot to eradicate one new undesired insect, or pathogen. Also, I am more reluctant to automatically reach for the systematic that will kill the harvestmen, long legs, bees, wasps, and array of spiders I find on my trees and the unknown chompers and processors in their soils or foliage.

It’s the quick and dirty now that I’m reluctant on. I have ~50 plants that could be some sort of bonsai one day, and 30ish others that won’t, and I’m just trying to say I will spray one with bayer if need be, but when I no longer think about it and truely pursue an alternative, I have too many plants for only personal and artistic enjoyment at home.

 

[TN_Jim]

Insecticide is becoming more and much more Burger King to me, with seriously all due respect -insecticide is a vastly accepted practice and I’ve used (will use in extreme cases now) and recommend it;.........
@penumbra im seriously not attempting to come at you in this reply or anyone directly or personally, or start some bonsai debate regarding the practices of conservation or being a steward of the earth...my assertions are only directed to the approach I am attempting to make with all of the plants I care for daily. I just read: use a systematic..so commonly that ideas of not or alternatives seem like some archaic waste of time, when presumably we all want the healthiest trees....

however I’ve heard this dichotomy argument outside of BN of ease of use associated with the literal supply and demand of X in complete different forms 3+ times this week vs. an alternative approach or application....and of course the gamble on the alternative effectiveness and $/time of application/investment/outcome and externalities....ala Burger King example...do I want to eat immediately or cook a decent meal?

I’m personally weary of the long term effectiveness of destroying a desired component of the ecosystem in a pot to eradicate one new undesired insect, or pathogen. Also, I am more reluctant to automatically reach for the systematic that will kill the harvestmen, long legs, bees, wasps, and array of spiders I find on my trees and the unknown chompers and processors in their soils or foliage.

It’s the quick and dirty now that I’m reluctant on. I have ~50 plants that could be some sort of bonsai one day, and 30ish others that won’t, and I’m just trying to say I will spray one with bayer if need be, but when I no longer think about it and truely pursue an alternative, I have too many plants for only personal and artistic enjoyment at home.

@Starfox & @penumbra...apologies for the rant

 

[Starfox]

No worries @TN_Jim it's all good.

So I repotted it today and aside from being really pot bound the mealys did seem to just be on the roots of the spurge so I removed all the visible remaining areas I could. There wasn't a lot left after weeding the pot first so that is a plus, I then gave a root prune(more worried about this tbh) and gave the remaining root ball an hot water dip as prescribed here... http://www.extento.hawaii.edu/kbase/reports/hIlandsc_rootmealyb.htm just to be on the safe side even though I don't think they had spread.

As an interesting side note this Acacia(dealbata to be exact) is one that's roots produce an onion type smell when disturbed, presumably as a defense mechanism for such attacks. I could definitely smell it so maybe that helps as a natural barrier. All in all I'm less concerned about the bugs now than I am the repotting even though I think the timing is right it's more that this tree is touchy to begin with. We'll see I guess.

 

[hemmy]

gave the remaining root ball an hot water dip as prescribed here...

I have just identified this problem during spring repots. The hot water seems like an elegant solution to spending money on insecticides or beneficials. But doesn’t seem all that feasible for a large number of plants or larger containers. Sustaining the 115F temp to the interior of a 3 or 5 gallon container seems difficult. But maybe I’ll experiment with a water container on the outdoor gas grill.

I wonder if control is similar to root aphids. Arbico Organics recommends beneficial nematodes and “Alternating spray treatments between azadirachtin and B. bassiana for extended periods is optimal.” Azadirachtin is a Neem tree derived insecticide and B. bassiana is fungus deadly to some insects. I am skeptical that the Aza drench fully penetrates rootball and maybe soaking is necessary. The fungus also has some drawbacks as there have been some rare cases of human infection in persons with compromised immune systems.

I lifted some 1 gallon liner material from the pot and sprayed insecticide soap on the outside of rootball and container and dusted in DE powder on the rootball and container. Although I’m sure the DE washes out the first watering. I also noticed that the infected plants were all in contact with ground.

So back to the systemic insecticides, I applied to granular Imidacloprid and Dinotefuran (probably banned in EU) to various different containers (all non-flowering). But I’m skeptical on that also, since the roots will uptake it to the top growth and new root tips don’t seem like they’ll retain sufficient concentrations.

Just my long winded 2 cents!

 

[hemmy]

Also my root mealy bugs were a hard ID due to very small size. Here’s pics through scope at 30x. They appear to be more oval than root aphids with legs that do not extend as far past the body outline. The other image is what I think is a predatory mite next to a very small mealy bug. This mealy bug is 1/10th the size of the larger one. So I don’t think that mite is controlling the big guys!